Modicon M340 system a good choice ?

[BASIC ELECTRICAL TEC]

Greetings everyone.
I have a customer proposal showing Modicon BMXP342020H processor and associated racks and cards, and HMI. I'm wondering how popular this system is, and what advantages it might have (over say AB Contrologix).
About 3 years ago I was called in to a site using similar system. The integrator walked out on the end of a project so I was called in to commission the system. I found the equipment to be very fickle staying connected to the remote racks. The UnityPro software was very 'klunky' and would knock me offline. The VijeoCitect HMI also seemed 'klunky' and intermittant. There seemed to be no easy way to share tag database between the two softwares. After the system was up and running, it was riddled with communication loss rack to card, rack to rack, and HMI to PLC. And then I found no one able to provide technical support, or even the ability to purchase a tech contract.

What features or compatibility really would make this desirable choice over anything else ?

 

[ZDB]

BASIC,

I have worked with the M340 PLC using the Unity Pro XL software and the Magellis HMIs using the Vijeo Designer software.

The tag database from Unity Pro can easily be linked to the Vijeo designer application. There is no need to Import/Export tags, you simply create a link to the Unity Pro program and the tags are readily available to be used in Vijeo. Unity Pro also has a simulator PLC which you can load your current program onto, and while used in conjunction with the Vijeo HMI simulator, you can essentially test and troubleshoot both applications (PLC and HMI) from your programming computer before going to site.

I am relatively new to the PLC programming world, but found these two products to be very easy to work with.

Edit: I also find the Schneider Tech Support to be very helpful and easy to get in touch with.

 

[GeoffC]

The M340 is my system of choice
- UnityPro is rock solid (at least since version 5)
- Programmable in all 5 iec langauges (no extra software or options required)
- UnityPro has built in simulator (no extra software or options required)
- Highly compatible with multiple protocols ModbusTCP, EthernetIP, Modbus, CanOpen
- The plc has a large range of services available on its ethernet networks including
- IO scanning (just fill out a table and comms to most devices is setup for you, no need for any additional programming)
- SNMP
- SMTP (email directly from the plc)
- Address server (this will configure the IP addresses of all remote ethernet devices)
- NTP (time syncronisation)
- Built in web server (web pages are editable in the higher level comms cards)
- UnityPro has an extensive library of functions included (including process control)
- UnityPro allows you to build your own functions (DFBs) and data structures (DDT). The logic in the DFBs can be edited on line.
- The whole program including tagnames and comments is saved in the plc, available for late upload if required.
- Hardware is all rock solid and has extensive built in diagnostics. Never seen the problems you saw, I would have looked very carefully at the installation

Anyway I could go, but you get the idea. When given the choice it is always my pick

I also find Schneider Tech Support very helpful, readily available, and free (except for Citect)

 

[GTUnit]

Pretty Darn Good

I just got done with a 3 Blower motor control project using Unity Pro 6.0 and Modicon M340.

Modicon Systems are almost a standard request for city water treatment plants.

I come from a RSlogix5000 background so the software and layout did take some getting used to.

Once I got the hang of it I found the overall M340 Package to be quite good.
Setting up the VFD Communication was a royal PITA however (Modbus TCP).

The software's ability to create all sorts of custom function blocks was excellent.

I did not care for the overkill level of options and customization of the Altivar71 Drives I was dealing with..

 

[GeoffC]

Setting up the VFD Communication was a royal PITA however (Modbus TCP).

Did you use the io scanning capability in the M340 - only need to fill out a line in a table in the plc, set the ip address of the drive (can set the drive to a fixed ip or use the plcs dhcp server to assign an address), and job done - the drive data will be available in the assigned addresses

 

[BASIC ELECTRICAL TEC]

Well, thanks for the great replies !
I'm still not feeling confident about it.
How do I get in touch with tech support on the software ?

 

[GeoffC]

What specifically do you need to know about the software?

Sorry but I only have contact details for tech support in Australia, if you really need to talk to tech support the contact details will be on their web site

 

[CalleLundin]

I like the M340, ive commising a number of thoose together with OTB and STB nodes thorugh Modbus TCP. It Works GREAT!!!

Im using the VeijoCitect as well as an Scada and som small STU panels as remote buttons, it all works vounderful together, and i enjoy the functons of Unity pro. Its easy for online changes, easy setup of big networks etc.

Just go for it! I prefer it before Siemens, Omron and Mitshubishi.. even doe i mostly work with siemens.

 

[jad51]

I would try and keep the amount of different PLC's you have to a minimum. There are many issuses with having multiple different plc'cs. Some software will not like playing well with other software on the same laptop I.E Seimens and Allen Bradley have issues, so now it is a multi boot laptop then you also have issuses with older PLC's software not running on newer software versions not only multi boot but multiple operating systems. Add to the mix different software for different PLC versions of the same brand. I currently have five different bands of software on my laptop, and three that I have not got the software for. That does not include all the various cables and adapters you need, or the industrial PC's I connect to. I would recommend a maximum two different PLC brands, with one having preference.

 

[BobB]

Not my favourite but workable. If you like FBs and ST it is a good way to go. I use neither if I can help it - too difficult trying to explain something on the phone to over the other side of the country when trouble shooting on the phone with FBs and ST - the other end generally does not understand at all. There are many functions only available for use that way, unless things have changed in the last couple of years. Not a problem if local or with trained staff though.

 

[GeoffC]

There are many functions only available for use that way, unless things have changed in the last couple of years.

Very Very few that I am aware of. (Almost) every function I know of is available in Ladder. All function blocks that you create yourself (DFBs) are available in all 5 languages.
Not that I would use Ladder, function block is much neater, easier to understand, easier to document and for me easier to fault find. You create a section of function block code that completely covers a single section (no need to jump back and forwards across multiple rungs), you can place comments anywhere you like on the diagram. Anyway when doing process control applications I could not imagine trying to program in ladder and ending up with an easy to read program. Sure a local electrician may be more familiar with ladder at first. To me the greatest power is being able to create a library of DFBs that have been extensively tested and use those within a program. As an example I created a part of a program to take in an analog input, scale that to engineering units, monitor that input for input fault, alarm on high, high high, low, low low, and format data for SCADA - ONE function block. Then take the engineering value and use a PID controller on that value, again with all deviation alarms, and modes of control, and data formatted for SCADA - ONE function block. Then the output of this block is connected to another block that is the full interface and control for a vsd drive, again with all alarms, and modes and with data formatted ready for SCADA.
So in 3 function blocks I have a fully functional and TESTED program for the PID control of an analog input with VSD controlled output and full SCADA interface for that system.

 

[Perrin]

hello guys
I entirely agree with you, I use M340 and Unity since their introduction, and for me, these are the best products on the market today

 

[BASIC ELECTRICAL TEC]

Thanks fellas for all your responses !
I just finished a meeting about the project and found this will be an addition to a system, installed 5 years ago, having two M340 and several HMI stations running. So, I will have to stay with existing equipment brand.
As for Tech Support. I had called my local Schneider salesperson. He referred me to another office. But it turned out to be another sales office in MO who then referred me to another person, and that was a sales office in Ill. I need a (Schneider) tech person who can verify the existing equipment/software will function with whatever I plan to install now. Because I really don't want to go adding 'new' equipment or software that may not be 100% compatible with what is installed. And I don't want to be in a spot 'updating' a whole system of existing software to make this tie in.
I really would like it to tie in seamlessly.
Its a large project and I will have enough to worry about.

 

[BobB]

Very Very few that I am aware of. (Almost) every function I know of is available in Ladder.

Good to hear - I remember the one that annoyed me most was floating point maths had to be done in an FB with ST - has that now been put into ladder as well Geoff?

I have a standard routine I use for getting stuff from Caterpillar EMCP controllers in ladder and the doing floating point maths on the information - drop it in, run the engine, see what I get and delete what is not there. Almost every Caterpillar I get into is different to the last one with respect to sensors on the engine. Absolute pain!

Another thing I have found of late is that some electrical consultant engineers are writing into the specification that all programs MUST be written in ladder - no other languages allowed.

 

[godfrey]

I find the Modicon ladder editor clunky compared to AB. I have also found it common for specifying engineers to only want code done in Ladder which disappoints me. Do they want it dumbed down so electricians can read it? They may have a point but only to a point. If facilities would only give their electricians more PLC training and exposure to IEC languages, they would then not want to go back to inefficient ladder.