Oil Burner Control

[starctyman06]

Hello everyone ! I am a old dog trying new tricks ! I am currently working on a Oil Boiler Control project AB SLC 1000 system that I could use some friendly help with. I need to implement a program that consist of timing, latching and interlocking the operation of an Oil Burner Control to a safety shutdown. Here is the deal. I need to create a program that shall consist of a burner that will turn on when heat is called for by a heating thermostat with Normally Open contacts (the contacts close to call for heat). When the burner is started a safety device (light detector) will check for presence of a flame. If the safety detector "sees" fire it will close a set of contacts indicating everything is okay and the burner will continue to run until the thermostat is satisfied. However, if no flame is detected within 10 seconds of starting, the burner is shut down and prevented from re-starting until a RESET switch is pressed. A safety shutdown of the burner should turn on a reset lamp that indicates a malfunction so someone will know to press RESET. Any help would be appreciated. BTW, sarcasm (I did this in HS) BS is not needed. Thanks !

 

[bce123]

Veriflame and other controllers are designed to do just that

 

[Donnchadh]

Hi

Welcome first of all.

Have you got logix 500 software and are you looking for some help or some one to do this for you.
If its some help then maybe you could show us what you have done even if its drawn on paper. If you are looking for someone to do thisa for you then I suggest you get a local
Integrator to carried out the work and set it up on site.
This would be a very common use for a plc and is actually one of the first projects I would have done with a PLC.

Donncahdh

 

[starctyman06]

Veriflame and other controllers are designed to do just that

Thanks for the reply ! The project I posted above is for AB controller. I am taking an online class to add some security to my current job/position. Thanks again. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[starctyman06]

Hi

Welcome first of all.

Have you got logix 500 software and are you looking for some help or some one to do this for you.
If its some help then maybe you could show us what you have done even if its drawn on paper. If you are looking for someone to do thisa for you then I suggest you get a local
Integrator to carried out the work and set it up on site.
This would be a very common use for a plc and is actually one of the first projects I would have done with a PLC.

Donncahdh

Thank you for the warm greeting. Please see the post above regarding the purpose of this project. Thanks again.

 

[Steve Bailey]

Welcome to the forum.

You have a description of how the system should work. Your next step should be to make a list of the PLC inputs and outputs.

You should also realize that this is strictly a lab exercise. In the real world you would use a dedicated burner controller and not a PLC.

 

[danw]

This is flame safety, period. If you are not qualified at the design level of flame safety controllers, you should not be doing this. Buy it, don't design it. Flame safety controllers are readily available in the market place.

There are all sorts of internal and external self-checks required to make certain that the flame safety controller is not being fooled or fooling itsef.

The commercial safety flame safety controllers that are sold for this have agency approvals; having be reviewed and passed, at great cost, for flame safety use. They bear the liability for fail-safe performance. If you design it, you do.

 

[Donnchadh]

Hi

Is this a real project or just something to get to learn plc programming


Donnchadh

 

[starctyman06]

Hi

Is this a real project or just something to get to learn plc programming


Donnchadh

This is a lab exercise and not a project to be implemented on live equipment. I was hoping to find someone who has AB programming experience for guidance. Thanks again

 

[starctyman06]

This is flame safety, period. If you are not qualified at the design level of flame safety controllers, you should not be doing this. Buy it, don't design it. Flame safety controllers are readily available in the market place.

There are all sorts of internal and external self-checks required to make certain that the flame safety controller is not being fooled or fooling itsef.

The commercial safety flame safety controllers that are sold for this have agency approvals; having be reviewed and passed, at great cost, for flame safety use. They bear the liability for fail-safe performance. If you design it, you do.

Thanks for the reply. This is not intended for real world equipment. This is a online project/lab exercise that I am seeking guidance with. Thanks again.

 

[bce123]

IMO labs should not be created to simulate unsafe apps. There are plenty of real world examples suited for PLCs

 

[Lancie1]

When the burner is started a safety device (light detector) will check for presence of a flame. If the safety detector "sees" fire it will close a set of contacts indicating everything is okay and the burner will continue to run until the thermostat is satisfied.

Starctyman06,

The "safety detector" mentioned is usually called a burner relay or burner controller.

I have attached a RSLogix500 subroutine (for a SLC 5/04 PLC) that was written for a diesel fuel burner (which should be almost identical to a fuel oil burner). This only controls the burner modulation after the safety ignition and flame detection (which are handled by a Honeywell Burner Relay). This subroutine is fairly complex for a student program. I doubt that would be the expected level for your beginner class. This program uses 3 thermocouples sending a temperature (center 1 out of 3) to a PID block, which controls a modulating oil valve.

 

[starctyman06]

Starctyman06,

The "safety detector" mentioned is usually called a burner relay or burner controller.

I have attached a RSLogix500 subroutine (for a SLC 5/04 PLC) that was written for a diesel fuel burner (which should be almost identical to a fuel oil burner). This only controls the burner modulation after the safety ignition and flame detection (which are handled by a Honeywell Burner Relay). This subroutine is fairly complex for a student program. I doubt that would be the expected level for your beginner class. This program uses 3 thermocouples sending a temperature (center 1 out of 3) to a PID block, which controls a modulating oil valve.

Agreed, the program is complex but will give me an idea how to start the lab exercise. Thank you Lancie !

 

[twarr1]

In the Honeywell Burner Control class I took they told us any time you work on a burner you are personally responsible, NOT your employer. Anything to do with purge or ignition trial timing should be done with a listed flame safety control. NFPA 85 prohibits the use of a PLC for these purposes; unless the PLC is listed for flame safety control, and several other requirements, including timings to be non-changeable. To my knowledge no PLC is listed for flame service. AB is definitely not.
There is nothing to prevent the use of a PLC to control the process, for example, monitoring t-couples, temps, low-fire/high fire, alarms etc. In short, you can replace a temp controller with a PLC, but not a flame control.

 

[maxketcham]

In the Honeywell Burner Control class I took they told us any time you work on a burner you are personally responsible, NOT your employer. Anything to do with purge or ignition trial timing should be done with a listed flame safety control. NFPA 85 prohibits the use of a PLC for these purposes; unless the PLC is listed for flame safety control, and several other requirements, including timings to be non-changeable. To my knowledge no PLC is listed for flame service. AB is definitely not.
There is nothing to prevent the use of a PLC to control the process, for example, monitoring t-couples, temps, low-fire/high fire, alarms etc. In short, you can replace a temp controller with a PLC, but not a flame control.

I was told the same thing when I took the class. Funny thing was that several years later I found plc's in several burner controls, usually just in monitoring what was going on and interfacing a touch screen, but several of them did have both purge control and burner % control (limits) that could be set from a touch screen. Wonder if the programmer for them knew the rule you speak about, or was this a 3-M canned music scheme being told to us?