OT but relevant. LOTO

[kamenges]

Originally posted by Dravik:

Penalty for removing locks(barring the above procedure) is severe. Termination is likely for the first offense.

This is the key. I suspect that if someone steals the company truck they will get fired. Wouldn't you think that the penalty for (possibly) stealing someone's significant other would be at least as severe?

Work backward from there with penalties for various infractions (not following the procedures). If there is one thing that Marx's experiment has taught us over the years its that people will likely not do anything they view as inconvenient without the threat of retribution if it is not done. It's human nature. Don't try to fight it; adjust to it.

Keith

 

[bulletin blues]

My facility is presently re-implementing a sure proof lock-out policy. There are very strict procedures.
Everyone involved puts their key in a common lock-box, and that is locked by the Man In Charge.
After everything is locked out, the Man In Charge calls me and asks me to bypass all the lock-outs so the equipment can be jogged into a better position safely.

 

[Christoff84]

We're a 24/7 operation and we've had the same issues with LOTO in the past. We issue everyone their own lock (maintenance gets a few, operators/die setters get 1).

To deal with the issue of shift change/prolonged shutdown due to waiting on parts/etc we've issued what we call "transfer locks". A set of regular locks (all keyed the same) that are only to be used to show the machine is down for maintenance and NO ONE is working on it. They have a tag that goes with them to show what the issue is, and who put the lock on. When the next person goes to work on it, they put their personal lock on the machine and take off the transfer lock.

So far it's been effective as a means of disabling a machine and communicating the issues.

 

[leitmotif]

First learned electrical trade and tagout in the Navy. Very strictly enforced. Worked well for the most part. Yes there were some problems where we did not get all of a system properly isolated (for electricians it was mostly interlock circuitry - mostly 480 which was our common control power). Tags were authorized for placement and removal by officer so there was a double check which was good - we often looked at drawings to see if we got it all.

Lockout is really preferential in my mind. Almost as good as disconnecting the wires at the source.

I have seen several cases where lockouts were cut off or jimmied. In all those cases I was disappointed in management response. In one case it was a contractor who did it and got a nasty letter warning him "if you ever do this again" The other is where I locked out a pump in a food facility because it was contaminated. Guy cut the lock because production need teh pump - he got away with it. SO production is more important than LOTO - sure gave me confidence in management support.

A system that is good is for each person in a craft to get three personal color coded locks and a couple craft specific transfer locks.

The system should have a method when a person forgets to pull his lock
- all too easily done -
Most guys I think would be willing to come back or authorize management to change the lock.
Management should have a master key and equipment should be looked over. In any case management now owns the equipment and all responsibility for all mistakes and oversights.
There should be a consequence of course.
Hmm dismissal - "employees are our most valuable resource" - ohh?? - you left a lock on and we lost production so you're fired. Yup sure am valuable now arent I? Yes a chewing and maybe a writeup or maybe a day off without pay.

I see a problem with shift change - no lock - new operator starts it up and BOOOM. Thus the argument for a transfer lock or company is just gonna hafta cough up the bucks to bring in new shift a little early and do turnover.

What do you do when a guy is working on A but has lock on B?

What do you do when you have screw in type fuses?

The one I really love is the in door breaker operators. Lock the operator then open the door. Line side of switch / breaker is still hot. Makes it convenient for test run though - just shut the switch.
Always got kind of a chuckle out of this setup - I would NOT have these on my equipment and would have an entirely separate but close true disconnect.
Dan Bentler

 

[silva.foxx]

Thanks

Thank you guys for all your participation on this topic, really appreciated.

So far: x amount of personal locks with identifier. Should the equipment require LOTO over shifts then a communal lock, situated in a managed location, is to be booked out and fitted.

A policy needs to be in place for; bookout and application of communal locks, failure to pull locks, and the (forced) removal of a lock needs to be strictly controlled with concequences if not adhered to!

I just need to put this in words, preferably layman's terms.

Thanks again. Please feel free to add.

 

[pmac10]

in a former life, as an aircraft maintenance techie, all tradesmen had tool tags, an aircraft wouldnt be towed out of the hangar unless all tool tags were present, this required a tool controller. being the military meant no one finished the shift until all tags were handed in or accounted for, just an idea for tradesman control:beerchug: nice emotion.

 

[silva.foxx]

Thanks for your input, pmac10.

And welcome to the forum

 

[TurpoUrpo]

I dont like this "no pay" thing. That shows only atitude that bottom line is what matter. Some of you even think that it is ok to demand to do work on your own time.

It should be when shift change is, if there is lockouts, you have 15min (subject to enviroment, needed time could be 30mins or something else) overtime to exchange locks with next shift and describe the problem

Carrot usually is more effective than stick to get things going the way they are needed to go.

 

[silva.foxx]

"No pay" is a no-no for me too. We have no problems with shift handover, except it's in the changing room as opposed to the shop floor, unless the machine is down. We're not paid handover and not allocated overlap time either.

 

[pmac10]

fair post turpourpo, but im not in the charity business either, in the UK, a 'can do' attitude goes a long way, if its not appreciated, never mind lock off, padlock the switch room

 

[TurpoUrpo]

There is big difference employer demanding to do in your own time and you doing something in your own time by your choosing.

 

[The Plc Kid]

IMHO it is very difficult to run a sucessful maintenance dept without some type of shift overlap or handover.

Here we have a maintenance supervisor (Lead Man) on each shift. Before the shift ends everyone finishes up and cleans up and pulls all locks and only the lead man's lock stays on. His is the first lock on also.

When the next shift comes in there lead man puts his lock on and the previous shift lead man pulls his lock off. All issues and work done,caveats,etc are reported to the lead man and he hands the shift over LOTO and communications,notes,work lists,open work orders,etc.

This way you pay i guy per shift overlap vs. everyone. There is a chain of command on each shift if the lead man is not there due to illness or vacation the the next guy in charge steps up and does the lead man duty and he gets paid overlap.

This ensures reliable communications between shifts also. We could not run a dept without it.

 

[TurpoUrpo]

IMHO it is very difficult to run a sucessful maintenance dept without some type of shift overlap or handover.

Here we have a maintenance supervisor (Lead Man) on each shift. Before the shift ends everyone finishes up and cleans up and pulls all locks and only the lead man's lock stays on. His is the first lock on also.

When the next shift comes in there lead man puts his lock on and the previous shift lead man pulls his lock off. All issues and work done,caveats,etc are reported to the lead man and he hands the shift over LOTO and communications,notes,work lists,open work orders,etc.

This way you pay i guy per shift overlap vs. everyone. There is a chain of command on each shift if the lead man is not there due to illness or vacation the the next guy in charge steps up and does the lead man duty and he gets paid overlap.

This ensures reliable communications between shifts also. We could not run a dept without it.

This I like. Ofc it is possible to have lead man only when shift is sufficently big. If you have shift manning of two. There really is no point to have lead man per se. And i indeed did mean that only one man on shift would stay and explain + do lock change, not all of them.

Btw, do you have what ratio between "day" men and shift men?

 

[The Plc Kid]

We have 5 men on each 12 hr shift ( 4 shifts) and a day crew M-F 7:00 am - 3:30 PM which is 18 men. The day crew primarily does predictive and prevenative maintenance tasks and major repairs.

Before my time but this company still had a lead man even when they had 3 guys on each shift just to make sure they had a smooth change of shift and little overtime the lead man stays over 30 min to 1 hr max depending on what is needed. Sometimes papaerwork and such. Most of the time 30 min is enough but they are allowed 1 hr comes out to be 20 hrs or less of Overtime between all shifts. A very small price to pay for a smooth running dept.

Also before my time here they had a plant manager that did awaywith the overlap for about 3 months and put it back when he saw the problems it caused. They saw for those 3 month the whole dept went to h*&^ compared to the way it normally runs.

 

[The Plc Kid]

Also for safety all men work in teams of 2. This plant is very large and sometimes you are working in areas that no people are in so the buddy system is there for safety and it yields more work getting done. Very few tasks here can be done with one man.

You would think 2 men on each job at least would slow things done as far as the amount of work getting done but it actually increases it.