OT: My job's being eliminated

[geniusintraining]

A flat tax also hurts the poor. Giving up 17% of 10 million is painful - 17% of 10 thousand will keep a family in rags.

This I agree with...but that's about it

*** Thread Hijack ***

just ask Paul, this thread got Hijack a long time ago...hell he got a new job anyways

The real reason we will never get a flat tax is that it would eliminate the IRS, the government protects itself.

Thank you




Rick is right...WE pay the vast majority of taxes

Three-Year-Average Median Household Income: 2002-2004 is $44,473 in the US, how many of you make more then that?

If you make better then this and less the 200K then you pay the vast majority of taxes in the US. We support big government.

 

[Papa Francisco]

GY is BIGGG on AB. I was with Goodyear-Dunlop before the Huntsville, AL plant shut down. HSV was 85% Modicon 14% AB and 1% Reliance DCS. I was then transferred to GY Social Circle,GA. Loved the plant, people and job however it just wasn't Huntsville.
OK Brucechase, I give up. Which rubber plant are you with? It's amazing that once you get carbon black in your veins you'll always find someone who knows someone from another rubber plant. At least that's the way it's been in my 20+ years in the industry.
Okie the reason I mentioned Goodyear is because they are always looking for good men in their flagship facility and we all know controls people are becoming scarce. If you have interest I may be able to get you a name or contact at GY. Regardless, Good Luck

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

Rick is right...WE pay the vast majority of taxes

Who are WE? More to the point, who are YOU and where do you fit in?

http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/reports/factsheetwhopaysmostindividualincometaxes.update.pdf
http://www.house.gov/jec/publications/109/Research Report_109-20.pdf

The data shows that most of the people pay relative little in personal federal income taxes. This is why there is big government. It doesn't cost most people much.

The idea of a flat tax is that most exemptions would be removed so the tax rate could be reduced.

 

[rsdoran]

I have not looked into the flat tax thing for a while but if I remember correctly you had to make 25-30K a year before you had to pay.

 

[MarkTTU]

Last time it was proposed to me it was people who make less than $25k per year paid $0 income tax. People who made more than $25k per year paid a flat 10% income tax with no possibility for any deductions. The proposal I saw indicated that the tax rate would be lower if the number of people working at the IRS was reduced, but at 10% the number of IRS jobs wouldn't have to change.

 

[geniusintraining]

Who are WE? More to the point, who are YOU and where do you fit in?

Peter,

I don’t get your point, I fall into that majority that you haved linked, you have just straighten my point. WE being the majority of the people in this site, make above average income.

The majority of the automation people make more then 42k a year by them selves, the number that I gave before was a family income.

So are you saying that the upper middle class America does not pay the vast majority of the taxes? That is what I’m saying.

So to answer your question Peter "who am I?" I am the one making a very good living and paying a lot of that into a government that I think is very wasteful, I do think that this US is one of the better places to live in the world, but I also have the right to speak my mind.

Our government is over sized and spend my money foolishly.

So if there was a flat tax that would do as Ron eluded to, then I’m all for it.

"The idea of a flat tax is that most exemptions would be removed so the tax rate could be reduced" perfect

EDIT: Looks like I need to move to Texas with Mark and Rube..at least people in Texas understand the ability to have fair tax, I don't mind paying, but I think that if government was controlled better then I/we would not have to pay as much.

 

[rsdoran]

Wikipedia has some info on the tax subject; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax
Bruce if you get a chance I started a new thread about Carnivals.

Papa I was thinking Gadsden, forgot about Huntsville.

 

[brucechase]

GY is BIGGG on AB. I was with Goodyear-Dunlop before the Huntsville, AL plant shut down. HSV was 85% Modicon 14% AB and 1% Reliance DCS. I was then transferred to GY Social Circle,GA. Loved the plant, people and job however it just wasn't Huntsville.
OK Brucechase, I give up. Which rubber plant are you with? It's amazing that once you get carbon black in your veins you'll always find someone who knows someone from another rubber plant. At least that's the way it's been in my 20+ years in the industry.
Okie the reason I mentioned Goodyear is because they are always looking for good men in their flagship facility and we all know controls people are becoming scarce. If you have interest I may be able to get you a name or contact at GY. Regardless, Good Luck

Papa, I am with Bridgestone/Firestone in SC. It's a relatively new plant (8 years old) and I was lucky enough to be in on the ground floor (I mean when it was dirt)! Amazing that we are no longer going to be in OK and Michelin is also closing their AL plant. I could talk hours on the reasoning but that can be another thread. We are real big AB with some Mitsubishi scattered here and there. I don't work in the carbon black area, but it is amazing that all you have to do is look at it and it jumps on your skin! Caseyk also worked for the big g, maybe he can chime in and you can all give me all the good stories from way back when. I can listen to some of the old guys tell the nosh***ers for hours. I came from a pretty diverse background, WDW in high school, Cape Canveral as a coop, a DOE weapons plant, TiO2 manufacturing, and now tires. This is by far the best job with respect to my responsibilities and what I can do.

 

[TimothyMoulder]

Do you have a source for that? The info I found indicates that the top income percentiles pay a significant proportion of tax reciepts.

That data shows that the top %20 pay %70 of the income and payroll tax reciepts.

Here are two. The first is from 2004, the second is an interesting bit of historical data.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61178-2004Aug12.html

"The conclusions are stark. The effective federal tax rate of the top 1 percent of taxpayers has fallen from 33.4 percent to 26.7 percent, a 20 percent drop. In contrast, the middle 20 percent of taxpayers -- whose incomes averaged $51,500 in 2001 -- saw their tax rates drop 9.3 percent. The poorest taxpayers saw their taxes fall 16 percent"

Lest you think this new, here is a site summarizing Joeseph Pechman's book, Who Paid the Taxes, 1966--1985?

http://www.truthandpolitics.org/tax-burden-pechman.php

In terms of income tax, as you pointed out, the rich appear to be paying more than ever. But as graph 2 clearly illustrates, the rich began paying vastly less than the rest of us, in terms of percent of taxes on total earnings, in 1980.

I'm still looking for data on the intervening years. I'll get back to you when I find it. I'm curious to know if this continued during the Clinton years - I expect it did, the man was a closet conservative.

Edit - bear in mind also that both our data concerns federal taxation, and ignores state staxes, local and others.

I'll rephrase my position to clarify:

"It's not that the rich are paying fewer tax dollars than everyone else, or that their percentage tax rate is less than everyone else; it's that the rich are able to keep a greater percentage of what they earn than everyone else."


TM

 

[rsdoran]

I don't work in the carbon black area, but it is amazing that all you have to do is look at it and it jumps on your skin!

I can relate to that. I had a hammer mill that would quit working all the time. I looked like something from outer space when I had to work on that thing. Full body jumpusit with full face mask and go straight to the shower when done. If that stuff gets in your nose it takes forever to get it out.

I noticed Okie has not responded lately so he must be in the process of moving, hope he gets back and gives us an update.

 

[Rube]

Looks like I need to move to Texas with Mark and Rube..at least people in Texas understand the ability to have fair tax...

We tend not to take any **** when it comes to our earnings.

Debate it ALL YOU WANT TO. A flat tax is the absolute best idea for paying gov't bills. Work out the details for low income households and get the law passed. Damn it it's about time!

 

[MarkTTU]

Personal opinion on taxes and how to make things "fair"... and ya I know, it will never happen.

1) Get rid of all income taxes at all levels for individuals and corporations, pass a federal law that no government entity (federal, state, local, etc) can levy an income tax. Let people keep what they earn.

2) Get rid of all property taxes at all levels, pass a federal law that no government entity (federal, state, local, etc) can levy a property tax. I'm a big believer in the idea that people should be allowed to actually own property, not just rent it from the government after paying someone else for the privilege of renting it from the government.

3) Create a federal sales tax on goods. This can even be a sliding scale tax if you'd like; charge 0% on food, etc and 50% on yachts and 10,000 square foot homes if you want. Charge more for business items than for home items (be careful here or businesses will simply buy "home use" items). Use the federal sales tax as the wealth redistribution tool by taxing people for spending on high end items, but please can we stop discouraging people from succeeding?

 

[elevmike]

The problem with a luxury tax is that it sounds good to the less fortunate, but it may put them out of work altogether. I don’t recall the details, but some time ago there was a luxury tax on expensive cars & boats. The result was about 4 boat manufactures closing plants and laying off about 5,000 workers. The luxury tax was quickly rescinded, and rightly so.

IMO there should be a simple flat Fed & State income tax w/no deductions. Two lines on the tax form, How much you made & 10% of that number (how much you owe). Municipal governments should be restricted to collecting property tax only. States should be restricted to collecting income tax & road use fees (license plates, fuel tax etc).. Nobody should be collecting sales tax.

Businesses are actually tax collectors and not tax payers. All other taxes are just a shell game that eventually all funnels down to further burden the average Joe on the street.

 

[MarkTTU]

There already is a "luxury" tax, its just applied when the money is earned instead of when the money is spent.

For the 'rich' does it matter if the cost of the boat goes up 15-20% if your net income goes up 30%? I know it wouldn't matter to me, I'd gladly pay 20% more for things if my income went up by 30%... (btw - my 50% number was an intended exaggeration).

To be honest I know my plan will never happen so if a flat tax is ever put to a vote you've got my vote.

 

[Rod]

Flat tax sounds good to me.

I earned a whopping $8192.00 last year in software sales and the IRS wants $922.00 of it (11%) leaving me $140/week to live on – food, gas, clothing, medical, ETC.

I have terminal bone cancer and am un-hirable as I constantly have to go to the hospital/pharmacy, ETC. No whine there, stuff happens.

Do to the fact that I owe the IRS monies I do not have in hand, they decided to levy/lien my Social Security Ins AND place a lien against the company that I sell my software through, effectively shutting down my company and my ENORMOUS income, see above.

It has since been decided that I have $74 a month of disposable income therefore I will pay the IRS $68 per month. With accumulative late penalties and interest my debt will never be paid off, it will only grow.

A horror story? You bet!
Is it true? Sadly yes.
Is it a fair deal? There is no good answer.

Sorry for the rant - I’ll shut up now.

Rod