PLC scan rate and hydraulic pressure

Kalle very insightful question.

We do many testing systems that simply raise and lower the pressure on a sample. For these we have to size the cooling capacity to 100% of the motor HP. The only "work" we are doing is compressing the oil and, yes, that makes heat.
 
Ummm...wow. A lot of info there. I was not receiving any emails telling me people were posting on this topic. I just checked back today just to re-read some of the posts. It will take me a bit to read and process all of the information given since my last post. I have only had PLC experience for a few weeks in a lab in college years ago. I am really pleased at how helpful everyone is being.

I will take a bit of time to process what people have posted and try to answer some of the questions thrown out. I will also see if I have any questions.

Again thank you to everyone.
 
Kalle is correct that hydraulics are not very energy efficient, which is one reason automobiles are changing to electric-assisted steering. We have one test facility that applies hydraulic loads to 10 Hz. When tuning the Delta controller we could only work 10 minutes at a time and/or lower the pressure. If not, the oil got so hot you could smell the paint melting on the cylinders. That was even with the cylinders stationary, just the normal balance flow thru the servo-valves. I didn't see a cooler in the system which has a large pump and motor (designed decades ago).

Not all mechanical testers use hydraulics. I think some for lower forces like fabric tension testers have electric positioners. However, if you need large loads and fast cycling, hydraulics is best for a general-purpose testing machine. If you have a dedicated test, with defined loads and frequencies, that will be used for years, one might design a more efficient loading system using something like a rotating unbalanced weight or spring-mass with electromagnetic drive. There likely are such dedicated testers in high-volume qualification testing like automotive suspensions and tires.

My experience with mechanical testing is limited. One memory is visiting a local test shop in GA to inquire about environmental testing. I saw a test where they repeatedly dropped a large sand-bag on a folding chair using a pnuematic cylinder, running for weeks. It was to get data for a lawsuit, which the tech said was a big part of their business. He didn't relate the weight of the injured party.
 
But I am still an ignorant and wonder where one find the power losses. Power out = power in. Does it mostly go to heat the work piece and oil?
All the energy eventually ends up as heat in this case the question is where. Norm is assuming a worse where all the heat ends up in the oil that that usually is not the case.

The heat or energy lost in oil is to the pressure drop x flow. The energy transmitted to the work piece is force x distance.
 
We have several MTS testers here of various sizes. The ones that do cyclic testing can start a million cycle test when the operator goes home in the evening and be done before he comes back the next morning.

Just to give you an idea of how far off typical design methods can be I took a look at one of our 55 kip (55,000 lbs force) machines, which is close to the 50,000 capacity you are using.

If I were to take the typical approach and consider static force = pressure * area and choose 3,000 psi as a working pressure I'd determine that I needed a 5" piston. Next I'd decide on how much stroke I wanted and how fast I wanted to cover that distance and come up with a pump size. Then I'd calculate the motor size. Chances are if I followed the methods most often used when designing a hydraulic system I'd end up with a small pump and a motor somewhere in the 3 to 5 HP range.

However, our 55 kip MTS units have 60HP motors and I estimate that the cylinder is ~9 to 10 inches in diameter. If you only applied typical hydraulic design methods that seems like a grossly over-sized piston and lot of horse power merely for a 27 ton press. But when you look at the info Peter just gave us you can see how the conventional approach isn't going to produce the desired results and you can see why the MTS engineers chose such a large motor and oversized piston.


On a side note, both the pump and the motor are inside the hydraulic tank. I've designed systems with the pump in the tank but never the motor. Anyone know what kind of a motor actually goes in the hydraulic oil tank?
 
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Okay, in reply to RocketTester, we are not turning the pump on or off we are controlling a valve either open or closed. That was bad information on my part. I knew what I meant, but obviously did not type it that way. My apologies.
 
On a side note, both the pump and the motor are inside the hydraulic tank. I've designed systems with the pump in the tank but never the motor. Anyone know what kind of a motor actually goes in the hydraulic oil tank?
I have no idea why the motor would be in the tank unless it is for cooling. Best place for the pump would be below the tank. One must be careful to maintain a NPSH ( net positive suction head ) for the pump to avoid cavitating. If the test system is small there were probably space constraints.

Mbuis, you need to get a servo valve or servo solenoid valve. On-off valves will not do. Even the most expensive valves will take 6-8 milliseconds to go from fully off to full open. The pressure will change a lot during that time. Most of the time when we are controlling pressure or force the valve is just dithering with just a few millivolts of control signal around the null value.
 
I think its one of the Vickers integrated pump/motor models with an oil cooled motor. I'm not sure if I like that idea or not.
I can say this much, it's very quiet. Between the integrated housing, the oil and the tank, and the HPU enclosure not a lot of sound gets out. Servicing it is probably a pain but we haven't had any trouble with it yet.
 
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Bingo!

I can say this much, it's very quiet. Between the integrated housing, the oil and the tank, and the HPU enclosure not a lot of sound gets out. Servicing it is probably a pain but we haven't had any trouble with it yet.

I believe it is for noise (or lack of noise :) ).

Next closest thing to that is to build the tank around the motor. Rexroth has a design with a wrap around tank and sound deadening that worked pretty well. You could stand next to 2 100 HP power units and have a conversation without shouting.

And yes, in some of the test systems we make there is no work being done and just about all the heat goes into the oil. Of course it is not 100% but we never know how the customers will set up and run the system having the heat removal capacity is easy insurance. Also, years from now when the heat exchangers get dirty and less efficient, they should still be able to do the job.
 

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