Remote control for PLC

[MathMan]

Hello everybody,

I am working for an OEM and we are in the process for trying to raise the effectiveness of the pretesting of machines.
Basically we are building machines with quite a lot of motors and cylinders etc..
During pretesting we home all the actuators and then move them in their mechanical min/max limit to see that everything is working correctly.
We have an array in the PLC for manual movements and a switch/remote to trigger it once selected.

It is quite tedious to go back and forth the computer to change the manual movement number to move to the next actuator.
Since our actuator numbers are standardized, we were thinking to use a remote that could send numbers to the PLC to select the movement and use buttons on the same remote to trigger those movements.

For example if we have a motor M32.2, we would like to send to the PLC number 322 and use a button to trigger the movement in the PLC (could be a relay in the receiver that goes into an input or some signal through some protocol).

Issue is that I have been trying to google it back and forth but have not had any luck finding such a product.
Using binary and relays on a regular remote will overcomplicate it specially for the junior automation engineers.
I was thinking perhaps it would be possible to use IO-Link to send the value or Modbus or something.
We are using Siemens 1200/1500 PLCs and also different Rockwell PLCs so it should be compatible with both platforms.

Is anyone using something similar in their work or can someone point me in the correct direction please?

Thanks!

 

[parky]

Not that I condone remote operation of moving machinery but if it has an HMI then many have either a webpage or perhaps remote access via VNC.
If not the cost of fitting one is not that bad, also many PLC's now have web pages built in.

 

[MathMan]

We have HMIs on machines as well with manual movement selection for operators but most of the times the lines are quite long and at that point it doesnt matter whether we go back and forth to the computer or to the HMI.

Right now we select the movement from the computer/HMI and then use a remote that triggers relays in the receiver which go into PLC input so we could get closer to the actuator to see it moving and to adjust it if necessary.

 

[Puddle]

If I'm reading this right, the issue is that you have to walk back to a PC or HMI every time you want to change a value? The answer is WiFi.

If you have a wireless connection you can either walk around the machine with a laptop, either directly on TIA or using Smart Server on a Comfort/Unified or better HMI.

Either that or a 100m reel of network cable.

 

[MathMan]

Puddle, you are reading it right!

But taking the laptop everywhere is far from ideal. We are sometimes 4-5m from the floor with a ladder or are climbing into the machines to have a better look of the actuator.

 

[mad4x4]

Puddle, you are reading it right!

But taking the laptop everywhere is far from ideal. We are sometimes 4-5m from the floor with a ladder or are climbing into the machines to have a better look of the actuator.

Sounds more like this is a 2 man Job, One to eyeball the sensor/actuator... one to operate/Control/Hit E-Stop. Especially if you are "Climbing into a live machine".

Far to may reported incidents esp on farms of farmers being sucked into combines and bailers.

 

[lfe]

The first thing to evaluate is that this remote movement does not contradict safety regulations.

 

[MathMan]

We are doing these remote movements anyway with a remote and these are quite safe.
But i appreciate the concern.

What we want to replace is the walking back and forth to the computer to change the actuator movement.

 

[BryanG]

You mention that you are using a remote that operates relays. Have you looked at 'crane remote controllers' (though they can be used for many other machines), you can get them with various bus outputs.

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People have mentioned that the PLCs and HMIs are likely to have some method of remote access, Siemens PLCs have webpages that you can access with any web viewer, including a mobile phone, HMIs often have webpages or VNC servers that can be operated on mobile phone screens. Combine a mobile phone with a magnetic mount and you can always have one hand available to hold on.

For a 'universal' system I might look an industrial raspberrypi and use node-red as the programmin system. Node-red has nodes for talking to Siemens and well as Rockwell PLCs. Node-red can have wepages where you could enter 322 and have the Pi communicate with the PLC/HMI. Again, the webpage can be acccessed using a mobile phone.

 

[MathMan]

The remotes we are using right now are also from Tele-Radio.
I was in contact with them regarding this and they basically said that they have receiver systems with Modbus for example but it is only to replace relays, so you cannot configure it actually to send anything else than a 1-0 signal. At least thats how i understood him.

We will look into raspberrypi and node-red, thanks!

 

[mk42]

If I'm reading this right, the issue is that you have to walk back to a PC or HMI every time you want to change a value? The answer is WiFi.

If you have a wireless connection you can either walk around the machine with a laptop, either directly on TIA or using Smart Server on a Comfort/Unified or better HMI.

Either that or a 100m reel of network cable.

I agree, I think wifi would be a huge help. Remote into the HMI or a PLC webpage and you should be good to go. I think there are some apps that act as a mini HMI on your phone, as well.

Siemens PLCs allow for either a custom page or an easy solution of watch tables loaded into the web page.

Depending on the size of the area, you might need a couple access points, but for this kind of occasional access you might be able to get away without industrial grade gear (unless your environment is nasty).

The first thing to evaluate is that this remote movement does not contradict safety regulations.

I'm suddenly reminded of a system where the someone was jogging a motor based on a video camera, and it took folks quite a while to realize that the video display had about a 3 second delay....

 

[tarik1978]

How about using your smartphone with remote desktop software such as Anydesk to access the plc through your laptop

 

[robertmee]

Ignition perspective. All mobile and Tablet based. Some commitment up front to set up a base gateway, but the license cost covers as many clients as you want.

 

[lfe]

....


I'm suddenly reminded of a system where the someone was jogging a motor based on a video camera, and it took folks quite a while to realize that the video display had about a 3 second delay....

The problem is that a machine that can move without the presence of the operator must be closed or caged and this takes priority before thinking about implementing that remote movement.

If it is not caged, it cannot allow remote movement.

 

[robertmee]

The problem is that a machine that can move without the presence of the operator must be closed or caged and this takes priority before thinking about implementing that remote movement.

If it is not caged, it cannot allow remote movement.

Exceptions to every rule. Most raw material handling plants have miles of conveyors that start all the time unattended. Usually with blast horns as a warning of impending movement.