SIEMENS hardware more reliable than Beckhoff?

[Farnesi]

Hello !

Struggling here with choice of technology for a big project.
background: we have always used SIEMENS but after recent hiccups some members of the team voted to switch to Beckhoff. Some other team members claims Beckhoff hardware to not be so reliable/durable and to not be easy to find people able to support and maintain the client, after we leave.

I tried to compare MTBFs of parts but I guess it doesn't represent reality.

Is beckhoff hw as reliable as Siemens (considering actual parts)?
Is the difference in price worth it?
Not to mention we will lose a lot of existing code from our previous projects.

I appreciate any contribution in sharing your opinion

 

[L D[AR2P#0.0]]

What were the hiccups?

 

[Farnesi]

Very long delivery time on some parts.
We are scared to have similar problems.
The offers are not binding in terms of time delivery.

 

[L D[AR2P#0.0]]

Use Beckhoff/Wago/Murr/etc. Profinet remote I/O - in general no-one is going to be more reliable than anyone else, sure there might be the odd product with a few more problems than expected, but everyone will have this so it will even itself out.


Keep Siemens as your main CPU and if delivery is a problem use the 1508S software controller running on a Siemens IPC. I believe the delivery times on the IPC are much much better than the S7-1500 physical CPUs. Swap out the IPC for the physical plc when available.

 

[Jim3846]

I would look into the remote IO of beckoff but leave the PLC base code and PLC CPU siemens. There is a ton of 3rd party IO and might be worth looking into other manufacturers besides Beckoff for delivery. The problems with 3rd party IO is the configuration details that bite you on startup. But try to nail that down with in house testing and documenting the issues.

 

[mk42]

Is beckhoff hw as reliable as Siemens (considering actual parts)?

Comparable HW is probably pretty close. I haven't heard of beckhoff being unreliable. That said, my experience is that IPCs as a class are less reliable than a HW PLC. My understanding is that Beckhoff is a PC based only platform. I'd be willing to bet that if you compare a Beckhoff IPC to a Siemens IPC they would be similarly reliable, but neither would be as reliable as a 1500 or other embedded class HW PLC.

Use Beckhoff/Wago/Murr/etc. Profinet remote I/O - in general no-one is going to be more reliable than anyone else, sure there might be the odd product with a few more problems than expected, but everyone will have this so it will even itself out.


Keep Siemens as your main CPU and if delivery is a problem use the 1508S software controller running on a Siemens IPC. I believe the delivery times on the IPC are much much better than the S7-1500 physical CPUs. Swap out the IPC for the physical plc when available.

Totally Agree.


The 1500S is programmed 99% the same as the HW ones. You hardly lose any code, just make sure you double check any references to system constants. Tell your Siemens rep that because of delivery issues you want to try an IPC based system, and they should help you size it out. The 1515SP is a mid-range PLC in the ET200SP form factor, or you can run 1507S or 1508S (how much memory do you need?) on an IPC. Note that, of course, the processor you select determines your PLC performance. 1507S on Atom vs 1507S on Xeon will probably be different, but it is the single core speed that matters; having a 16 core beast doesn't speed up your PLC scan at all.



IO is a ton more interchangeable than the CPU. Yes, you need to redo drawings, but it beats not having HW.

 

[Manglemender]

I agree with others to stick with Siemens at the core. I've recently sent out a machine with an Omron PLC but all the Analogue I/O came from Wago. What does seem to be an issue all over is safety I/O. Would be interrested to know if anyone found 3rd party safety I/O?

Nick

 

[AlfredoQuintero]

Omron has safey I/O.
https://automation.omron.com/en/us/search?query=NX-SI%20%2F%20SO&pageSize=10
Also SICK has a number of products.
Hope this helps

 

[Manglemender]

Omron has safey I/O.
https://automation.omron.com/en/us/search?query=NX-SI%20%2F%20SO&pageSize=10
Also SICK has a number of products.
Hope this helps

The problem is that they are not avaialble. At least not in the UK. Currently, we have 119 items outstanding from Omron UK that were ordeed in February 2022 and these items still have no realistic delivery date. Within those 119 items are 21 safety input cards and 24 safety output cards.

[RANT]
We built 2 machines by redesign and purchasing parts "elsewhere" but I have two more machines to build and no parts!
[/RANT]

Nick

 

[Farnesi]

I appreciate you guys help so much.I always get nice answers here.

So it seems most reasonable way would be to go SIEMENs as a core - compare delivery times IPC vs HW solution.

3rd party I/O as an option.
I believe I might have problems with delivery time for intrinsic safe I/Os. Do you guys recommend a good supplier for remote I/Os, which has good solution for intrinsic safe?

 

[Jim3846]

https://www.bihl-wiedemann.de/en/me...mponents+→+Safety+I/O+Modules&tx_solr[q]=safe

https://www.bartec.de/en/solutions/control-switch-and-connect/case-studies/safely-tapping-oil-wells/

maybe in your area?

 

[Jim3846]

intrinsic safe, belden does custom orders maybe its something to look into?

https://www.belden.com/products/i-o-systems