SLC5/03 DH485 via Ethernet, possible?

[marv_tech]

Hey all, long time reader but first time poster here. I've been tasked with an odd one and was wondering if anyone else had experience in this.


I've got a SLC5/03 with a Panelview on the DB9 port with no option to remove. I can connect to it via the RJ45 DH485 port with a PIC or AIC+ adapter and go online with RSLogix without a problem.



I have been tasked with making this PLC monitorable via the network. I've tried a NET-ENI (which does DF1 to Ethernet/IP) with both the PIC and AIC+ adapter and no dice, I see the NET-ENI in linx but it doesn't see the SLC.



The UIC/AIC+ driver I use in Linx doesn't work when I try to set it up with a virtual COM port so ethernet to RS232 serial hosts haven't worked for me so far.



Anyone ever made this work? At some point it makes more sense to upgrade to a SLC5/05, but I'm hoping to find a cheaper option. Much thanks for taking the time to read my post.

 

[Ken Roach]

Welcome to the PLCTalk forum community !

I can connect to it via the RJ45 DH485 port with a PIC or AIC+ adapter and go online with RSLogix without a problem.

I am surprised that you can !

What OS are you running ? To my knowledge, the 1747-PIC/AIC+ driver stopped working after XP SP2 (SP3 if you applied a specific patch, hat tip to our forum member @dmroeder)), and simply doesn't work at all with Windows 7 or Windows 10.

Your experience with the Net-ENI is expected: the Net-ENI supports only DF1 Full Duplex point-to-point, and the 1747-PIC/AIC+ is true native DH485.

A virtual COM port (or a USB COM port) won't work with the 1747-PIC/AIC+ for similar reasons that a modern PC's native COM port won't: they can't access the handshaking features on the port fast enough.

There was a thread a while ago in which someone challenged the forum to set up a USB-over-TCP with a modern 1747-UIC USB to DH485 interface. I got it to work, but unreliably, and abandoned the effort.

 

[marv_tech]

I've got a few old laptops running windows NT/XP specifically for SLC5/03s as I have quite a few SLC5/PV combos in this configuration, running on borrowed time but still ticking for now! Running into these the first time after a few years of Micrologix experience was not a grand time. I misread the AIC+ documentation and thought it might do DF1/DH485 conversion internally, but my understanding now is that actually happens in the driver.



I hadn't thought of USB over TCP, that is a novel concept. Was it reliable enough for monitoring? Intended application is for one of our engineers to be able to view a few alarm and analog values via rslogix500, would never allow programming over such a link.


Thanks for the reply!

 

[plvlce]

SLC5/03 DH485 via Ethernet, possible?

Would something like this work?

 

[marv_tech]

Would something like this work?

I suspect it would, the product description says "In Transparent PCCC mode, the user will be able to program and connect to SLC5/03 PLCs."


Only problem is the cost thru Rexel is similar to a SLC5/05 CPU replacement (used stock). Sure is tempting though, it specifically calls out my usecase. Much appreciate you digging.

 

[Ken Roach]

Here's the thread, turns out it was just last fall:

https://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=130596

At the end, there's a recommendation for a commercial USB print server that evidently will work with a 1747-UIC.

 

[JTCat]

I've connected 5/03's to an XP VM on a plant wifi network running RSLINX to accomplish something similar. The VM was network-bridged to the host that had all necessary firewalls and anti-malware software monitoring the connection. I wouldn't recommend this unless your network security is top-notch, but it does work, even if it is a PITA.

 

[marv_tech]

Thanks for the link Ken, I'm going to give that route a try as I've got some ras-pi's in house and might be able to get my hands on a USB<->Ethernet print server without too much grief.



JTCat, that sounds very interesting - I am having a little trouble picturing your setup. What was the physical connection to the 5/03? I'm lucky enough to have a mostly isolated production network with a robust firewall for our dual-homed server, so as long as I stay in LAN I am pretty safe.

 

[JTCat]

Marv,
I have done this with a virtual serial port server. Ethernet to the PC, serial to the SLC. I believe I've used MOXA Nport that's compatible with DF1, there are several on the market.

Profisoft makes a DH485 -> E/IP gateway.

Either way you do this, expect to spend some money. I don't know how to see non-ethernet devices across a VM.
Some may question the need for a VM if using Ethernet, as I do sometimes. But some customers are adamant that they want to view processes without them being 'physically' linked to their plant network. So a bridged-to-wifi NAT adaptor accomplishes more or less the same thing. Like I said, it's a PITA, and to me it's not worth the effort if I wasn't getting paid to do it.

 

[marv_tech]

Marv,
I have done this with a virtual serial port server. Ethernet to the PC, serial to the SLC. I believe I've used MOXA Nport that's compatible with DF1, there are several on the market.

Profisoft makes a DH485 -> E/IP gateway.

Either way you do this, expect to spend some money. I don't know how to see non-ethernet devices across a VM.
Some may question the need for a VM if using Ethernet, as I do sometimes. But some customers are adamant that they want to view processes without them being 'physically' linked to their plant network. So a bridged-to-wifi NAT adaptor accomplishes more or less the same thing. Like I said, it's a PITA, and to me it's not worth the effort if I wasn't getting paid to do it.

I appreciate the insight, I've had success with DF1 via network serial port (both through an HMI passthru and a dedicated serial port server) but no luck when trying with DH485 (thru a 1761-NET-AIC+ and a 1747-PIC).



Was your setup a SLC5/03 485 -> Moxa NPORT -> Virtual Com Port? Or SLC 5/03 485 -> Physical Win XP PC with Serial Server -> Virtual Com Port on VM?

 

[I_Automation]

Since the adapters being suggested cost money, why not look for a used SLC5/05 on eBay. Depending on the memory words needed they start at $600 or $1000.


Changing the processor type from a 5/03 to 5/05 is simple in RSLogix, a quick verify and download. Anything a 5/03 can do the 5/05 will, just with an Ethernet port not DH485. That would also be less effort than setting up new unknown adapters.


On the side, I found it beneficial to tell the boss that his new idea is going to need something upgraded to get him more open to upgrades. Just say the 5/03 won't but a 5/05 will.

 

[marv_tech]

Since the adapters being suggested cost money, why not look for a used SLC5/05 on eBay. Depending on the memory words needed they start at $600 or $1000.


Changing the processor type from a 5/03 to 5/05 is simple in RSLogix, a quick verify and download. Anything a 5/03 can do the 5/05 will, just with an Ethernet port not DH485. That would also be less effort than setting up new unknown adapters.


On the side, I found it beneficial to tell the boss that his new idea is going to need something upgraded to get him more open to upgrades. Just say the 5/03 won't but a 5/05 will.

Yeah SLC5/05 is the plan if I can't find a cheaper way, they're just pricey. That said, they are about the same price as the dedicated solutions for Network RSLogix Monitoring to a SLC5/03 via DH485 and a SLC5/05 wins every time in that matchup.


I'm going to try USB redirection + UIC setup Ken linked to, seems promising and I've got a decent testbed environment to make sure it won't somehow interrupt a run-mode SLC. I need to buy a UIC anyway and the USB network devices are cheap. I'll post results!

 

[Puddle]

Since the adapters being suggested cost money, why not look for a used SLC5/05 on eBay. Depending on the memory words needed they start at $600 or $1000.

I replaced a 5/02 a few weeks ago specifically because of the issues with the RH485 port.
Cost around £1500 for an ET200SP mounted S7-1500. Nearly half of that cost was relays due to the 110v controls and the only ET200 modules that could do it were on a 38 week lead time.
Not sure how this translates to US prices though and obviously it's only a cheap option if you already have the software licences to do it.

 

[James Mcquade]

try looking at https://www.santaclarasystems.com/
for a unit. i use them when we cannot find an item.
james

 

[barryoc]

Hi all,


Maybe i'm misreading this thread. Wou;d something like this work.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsHzJHykxNA


I'm putting one together tomorrow to look at PLCs (S5 using ibh usb cable) that are on a carousel.


Rwgards,
Barry.