Who makes pre-build pre-wired enclosure with PLC

[Pierre]

Here is one example of a "Standard" panel that we build. As you can see, the PLC is full. We usually have less extensions but we have more relays.

This client builds machinery and they have options which all fit into this panel.

He then only calls us with the list of options and power source specifications.

We always have 2 in stock and remove the un-necessairy units and add relays. All I/Os are wired to terminals so we only have to add 4 wires per additional relays.

I do not beleive he saves any money at all doing it this way but he signs the checks. :0

We leave plenty of room for more stuff !!!

 

[Contr_Conn]

Thanks everyone for reply:

As I see from discussion - "hey, it is stupid" - we came to the point that people actually do this.
I think this idea is not that bad and "standard" off the shelf panels may be popular with proper advertizing.

I am working with custom machinery for 20 years and nowdays all my clients are small places.
What I see the way they operate - they don't want to hear "yes I can buid this for you".
They want to buy something already done NOW, bring it to the shop and at this point start thinking "how we goin to use it?"

This IS a huge category of people who are buying computers off the shelf completely rejecting the idea that they can be customized for their needs.
Same people buying standard machinery and trying to squeeze a work piece in it instead of buying a custom one for a little more money.

Is it time to try?
It will cost almost nothing to design a few cabinets and make a catalog.

 

[Pierre]

I think that what is no very smart is the term "catalog".

Yes a standard panel can be made for almost anything.

The end-user idea of having a catalog of many such panel is pure day dreaming. bonkhead

PS: I sell to them 40 of those a year, they pay the parts AND labor BEFORE we build.

 

[kamenges]

I think that conceptually this is a pretty good idea. Then again, so is communism. The problem is in the execution.

The comment was made:

This IS a huge category of people who are buying computers off the shelf completely rejecting the idea that they can be customized for their needs.

How many BILLIONS of dollars and hundreds of man-years were put into making this work. I don't think the market for this is big enough to amortize your costs. And you still have a huge aftermarket for upgrade interface and I/O devices. What makes the computer thing really work is that for 99.9% of the time the I/O is a keyboard and a monitor. It's exactly the same for everyone. If you need more, you customize. I have yet to see Dell offer a computer with a PCI digital I/O card in it and configured. Why? Most people don't need that kind of I/O. If you are making machines that require no I/O then we are comparing apples to apples. Now we are down to speed, memory and the monitor, just like when you buy a computer. But, unfortunately, most machine require physical I/O. So where do you draw the line? 16 in/16 out? Analog, yes or no? Fieldbus capable? As has been said before there are too many variables.
I guess what it comes down to is the contention that electrical cabinet design takes massive amounts of hours. I have to agree wit hRick in post #10. This just isn't backed up by the labor numbers we keep around here. Programming, concept and machine based electrical design take up much more time. I can take a cabinet I have used before and come up with a new one in VERY short order. As long as you aren't doing something really wacky cabinet design isn't all that hard. And as Contr_Conn said, most of us have panel builder we work with that can rap stuff off real quick.
The impression I get in this case is someone got charged what they thought was WAY too much for an electrical design and they are looking for a way to cut costs.

 

[Contr_Conn]

The impression I get in this case is someone got charged what they thought was WAY too much for an electrical design and they are looking for a way to cut costs.

It is possible customer wants to compare prices.
He is just from the category of people who thinks that custom is much much more money.
He asks for something standard every time. And I know he is not along.

So where do you draw the line? 16 in/16 out? Analog, yes or no? Fieldbus capable?

How many of us can use a cabinet like I posted in post #1?
I would use it quite a few times: 32in 24 out, no fieldbus, no analog.
Complete DC version or AC version. Safety relay.

I know local automation (conveyor) guy who probably would use 10-20 a year. Another local coolant tank manufacturer - even more. A lotof small jobs around.

 

[Vetteboy]

I say go for it.....

Sounds like you want to do this pretty bad. Set up a catalog of about 40 different units ready to ship - make about 20 of each to start - spend an average of $10,000 on each (unprogrammed AutomationDirect Quality) and you are ready to rip.

Now if you had my Great Uncle's ability (he's a multi-millionaire), you could talk enough people into fronting you the 8 million required to start.

 

[rsdoran]

Personally, I think this is crazy.

Panels are built to house components needed for a system. HOW can you pre build a panel when you have no idea what the system is?

HOW can you determine what size the panel will be?

Semantics can kill you...there is really no such thing as "custom built" where electrical/control panels are concerned. The panels are designed then built depending on the needs of the system.

$$$$$ The COST of making panels and placing in stock that may never be used would be atrocious.

HOW would you estimate the small things...transformer KVA? PLC I/O? number of terminals? Wire...size and type, type for communication used..ie Dnet/CAN, DH485, DH+, serial, Ethernet...etc.

If you built 100 cabinets that were sold but used $100 worth of parts not needed then you would loose $10000...can you afford that? This not counting the cabinets in stock pre-wired.

Do NOT attempt to develop a catalog. Offer cabinets with prices, components with prices, and development costs to build what is needed. Let them look for someone with "off the shelf items". I doubt it will be found.

Why is it so many that do so much can barely read and write in English? NOTE: This is intended for the people that use English as their native language, in many cases our international members can spell and phrase sentences in an understandable manner.

Back away from this discussion with that person/company. Do business as you have always done it and let this issue fade away.

 

[Contr_Conn]

Well, from really simple question from one of my customers we came to some nasty discussion blaiming foreigners: rsdoran I did not get it? Can you make it clear?

Why is it so many that do so much can barely read and write in English? NOTE: This is intended for the people that use English as their native language, in many cases our international members can spell and phrase sentences in an understandable manner.

You having problems with my English?
-----------

Speaking of making this real - - sure I have $100K to spend, even $300K
Just after I find money to make my next house payment...

Always remember: if someone asking for it and willing to pay - it should be available, no matter how crasy it sounds.

 

[Eric Nelson]

Always remember: if someone asking for it and willing to pay - it should be available, no matter how crasy it sounds.

That is why us custom machine builders are in business. We just don't have a catalog of 'off-the-shelf' custom machines.

Custom = Doesn't exist until you have a need for it...

beerchug

-Eric

P.S. We can probably put EVERY machine we've ever built in a nice color catalog, but never get an order.

 

[Contr_Conn]

That is why us custom machine builders are in business. We just don't have a catalog of 'off-the-shelf' custom machines.

Still in business (not all) until all business will go to China - they will make it for $20 and ship it for another $50.

 

[LadderLogic]

Well, it looks like Contr_Conn's customer is one of those "McMaster" types... you know, that truly great catalog of virtually anything.

I've met my share of them - most of them are great guys without a slightest idea what would it take to have their process work right. They are usually stunned by any automation quote: "How much did you say for this pressure control box? There is one for $20 at McMaster's!"

They are great at fixing production problems with cardboard and duct tape. One just has to learn how to handle them. As a matter of fact, many of them are smart and quite able to listen.

Sorry for this rant.

 

[Contr_Conn]

Well, it looks like Contr_Conn's customer is one of those "McMaster" types... you know, that truly great catalog of virtually anything.

Exactly! Did you meet him ?

They are usually stunned by any automation quote: "How much did you say for this pressure control box? There is one for $20 at McMaster's!"

This is exact conversation I had today: Servo Motor $2230 -is OK, drive -$3200???? - I saw these drives for $500.

 

[rsdoran]

Well, from really simple question from one of my customers we came to some nasty discussion blaiming foreigners

IF you live in the US as your FLAG displays then you are NOT a foreigner, therefore should attempt to learn the language if its not your native language. IF you are native to the US then YES I have a problem with your English.

I have not and never will blame what you call "foreigners" for anything pertaining to the English language. If you consider anything I said NASTY then so be it.

NOTE: The simple question from customer was not simple, it was ridicolous, that should have been explained at the time it was asked.



WHY GOD am I in court attempting to get paid (250,000) for a job that works efficiently and is still used daily and others can be so.....

 

[Eric Nelson]

Yup, Ladder hit the nail on the head!...

Those are the customers we've learned not to 'pursue'. We give them a competitive quote, then let it sit. If they feel McMaster can give them a better price, then by all means, let them buy it from McMaster and learn their lesson...

McMaster doesn't sell what we make, so we aren't in competition with them...

Some customers eventually figure out that McMaster doesn't sell custom automation. NOW they're ready to entertain our quote...

beerchug

-Eric

 

[Contr_Conn]

Eric Nelson:
These people treat automation direct as McMaster.

rsdoran:

My former employer went out of business, because customer did not pay $800K for machine they got and used - court did not help.