Who makes pre-build pre-wired enclosure with PLC

[Vetteboy]

Jeepers

Well, since the large amount of sarcasm in my last post was mostly ignored I thought I would state this. If there really was money in preconfiguring a control system for an unknown process, Automation Direct would certainly already have it available. They don't. If your customer likes Automation Direct, tell him to buy a bunch of really cool stuff from them, and if he can't put it together himself, he can freakin' pay someone to do it. There is no such thing as a free ride. Why should he have all the money. If he's so great he will build it himself. The lazy may control the world today, but the ambitious will succeed in taking it away. Wow, I'm really pumped now.......

Bring it on......

 

[Pierre]

Re: Jeepers

If he's so great he will build it himself.

You left out the part where they walk on the water. moon2

 

[TimothyMoulder]

:: Braces for impact ::

What about a distributed control model?

You provide a basic box with HMI and PLC, using 120VAC power drop, ethernet I/O connections, and safety relays. Flat Price.

Then, offer a line of small boxes and distributed IO terminal sets that may be positioned around the machine, connected via TCP to the main box. E-Stop modules are plug and play and wired via a separate cable. Conduit sold separately.

Mount the Servo Boxes ($1999 and up) on the frame of the machine beside the motor they are to drive. Each box includes it's own disconnect and fusing, and SERCOS or remote I/O to communicate back to the mother box.

Programming sold separately, naturally.

How about it? Would a modular distributed IO model work?

::raised shields and braces for impact::

TM

 

[kamenges]

Only a small shield needed...

Conceptually, I like Timothy's idea better than anything we've talked about so far. I think it fits in more closely with what people actually do in the field. And talk about flexible. With the availability of IP65 fieldbus I/O you could have a pretty sweet system.

However, (here we go...) if someone it too CHEAP to pony up the 5 man-hours of design time needed to tweek an obviously pre-existing design because the perceive it as 'custom', I don't think they will spring for the added cost of fieldbus I/O.

See, just a love tap.

Keith

 

[TimothyMoulder]

Yes, but...

Alot of the comments here have referred to the mentality of the buyer. Words like "custom" equal $$$ to these guys. A standardized catalog of prefab modules might go a long way towards comforting his sensiblities, and opening his wallet.

I'm basing this model on my own ideal approach. We haven't had any projects of sufficient scale to merit it lately, but I plan on using this distributed method on the next one to come along. If the technology works out, I plan to build a number of modules to keep on-hand for other projects.

Lastly, the price of networking ain't what it used to be. Check out the Unitronics Vision 280, with TCP/IP capabilites and modbus RTU implemented. Cheep and powerful, PLC + HMI + Touchscreen, and my own pick for the aforementioned project.

Thanks for the tap!

TM

 

[Greg Gauper]

Custom doesn't have to mean $$$$.

I'll use a real world example.

I bought a bunch of 'custom' replacement windows for my house a few years ago. Most window companies make a series of 'stock' window sizes i.e. go to the catalog and pick out the window that's close to what you want and make it fit.

The window company that I dealt with makes all windows custom. Their manufacturing process was such that they made the windows to order, after they have visited your house and measured the old windows. My window sizes were all over the place (older house). The size of the window didn't matter. Likewise, there was no difference in price if I bought 1 window, or 10 windows. The price per window was the same (all my windows were the same style and the sizes were within a few inches of each other.) The incentive for multiple windows was a reduction in the installation, which was included.

But they don't keep any complete assembled windows in stock! You order it, they make it.

To my way of thinking, this is similar to a typical control house that builds industrial control systems. Use standard, off-the-shelf hardware and 'make' the system to order. Get a list (spec) from customer on preferred components, otherwise state up front what will be provided.

Similar principal to 'Just-In-Time' manufacturing.

 

[Contr_Conn]

TimothyMoulder
I think your idea is excellent and the best from what we had so far.
I am not really sure about TCP - I have to think what fieldbus I would use.

 

[Allen Nelson]

The Dell Model

Just to build on what Greg Gauper said.

Custom does not have to mean $$$.

Dell Computers has a catalog.
Dell Computers is viewed widely as selling inexpensive PCs. It's possible to get cheaper PCs, but there's a quality aspect as well that you get when you get a Dell.
Dell Computers builds each computer custom-made.

The key is the "magic speadsheet". In developing this so-called "catalog", what you need to develop is a spreadsheet so that the customer isn't buying a "Custom Panel", but a "Standard Panel, that is customized to his needs".

The magic spreadsheet will do error checking to make sure that all the options will fit in the box, and add the value of each additional part.

If your spreadsheet is truly magic, it could even generate your CAD drawings for you. Then you'd really be able to show any prospective client how this is "Just like ordering a Dell", where their order gets automatically converted into a work order and the shop guys become little more than automatons in the process (even if you know that they provide a valuble sanity check on the "magic").

Customer sees that he is getting a great deal. He'll assume that you'll buy cabinets in bulk, that you pay the "automatons" minimally, unlike other shops where they have to pay a premium for skill), and that the cost is reduced because the hard design part is already done. And he'll sleep well, knowing that he's got a proven design.

Whether any of his assumptions are actually true or not is irrelevant. He's sleeping well, and that is worth ANY amount of money.

Why hasn't someone already done this? Magic costs money up front, and the return is questionable. ROI is the key to any business.

Remember the bubbble.

 

[Contr_Conn]

Why hasn't someone already done this? Magic costs money up front, and the return is questionable. ROI is the key to any business

We are all here too small to put that kind of money at risk. But just wait a little - automation direct will be selling this in a matter of months.
They will develop a "magic spreadsheet" probably with minimum invesment and all "catalog" seekers will be really happy.
I am sure automation direct people will read this

 

[Tim]

Then I think to myself...... What makes this a great country?
Dreams and ideas.
GO FOR IT!!!
Tim

 

[Pierre]

Tim, would you not be writing some texts for the Miss America pageant?

 

[Tim]

No,
I actually don't know where that came from, I guess I just got a little emotional.
bawling

 

[Stoney]

I think it is a good idea

 

[elevmike]

It's hard for me to imagine that one could provide a truly "universal" control panel as your customer seems to be looking for. There are just way too many potential applications that require very different components and wiring schemes, and safety issues etc.. You always want to bend over backwards for the customer, but this is just not something that he's going to find. You might find that making up a catalog will cost you more time than specing a panel to his spicific needs. I would try to communicate with this guy a little better to get him to understand that it just does not work that way.

 

[pdavis]

Most of the panels we build could be based on two different sizes with only a handful of options or changes. About the only things that change are the size f the fuses and contactors.