Windows NT Hard Drive Limitation

[elevmike]

Allen, & John.

As I understand it Partation Magic is not Compatable with Windows NT Server. I may have forgot to state that this is a SERVER. According to Power Quest I would need Server Magic. But I'm not convinced Server magic can see through the OS Limitations?


Rsteimle. Like an idiot I took the jumper off of CS and placed it on Slave. I'll place a jumper back on CS when everybody goes home and I can shut down the server. Thanks. I'll let you know about 5:00 pm today.

 

[elevmike]

Rsteimle,

I set the CS and this did not work. The drive showed up as 2gb.

Back to the drawing board....

 

[panic mode]

I never needed to run NT server but Partition Magic shouldn't be
concerned either. It's the partion table and file systems that
count. With NT4 you are using either NTFS or FAT32 because those are
the only file systems that NT knows and which support more than 2Gb
per artition. Either one are easily handled by PartitionMagic.
I have XP_Pro on my laptop and Win2K n my desktop. Both are running
NTFS and FAT32 partitions (multiboot on each machine).

So you have 120Gb HDD and only one partition which is 8Gb?
Just make one more partition which will span the remaining 100+ Gb
and use the space any way you like.

But - make sure to know what are you dealing with when creating partitions:

If you move existing partition and create new one in front of it,
you are stuck with nice mess unless you edit BOOT.INI before
rebooting.

Same applies if you want to use one more HDD and the drive letters change.

For example on one of machines I got, WinXP was loaded by distributor
making one large NTFS partition. I was too lazy to do anything about it
at the time. Later on more applications are installed, more things are
customized etc. and then my machine dies after installing RsNetworx (it simply
killed my RS Linx - damn it, RS, can't you test your software compatibility
at least with your own products??? RS Linx is not exactly in the some category
with Tetris and Age of Empires...). That's when I decided to make
multiboot and have backup OS with esential applications right on this
machine.

After loading Partition Magic, I reduced existing NTFS partition,
edited my BOOT.INI, moved this partition to make space for one little
Fat16 partition and created one more Fat32 partition.
On the FAT16 I loaded Win95 for some old software (800GOTs), Partition
and Boot magic.

After hiding first two partitions and making Fat32 active, I loaded
same copy of XP one more time with everything I needed.
Activated Boot magic and voila, I can fix one OS while running another.
And I get spare WinXP for emergency. I don't like scenarios where
I have to figure out RSLinx/RSNetworx incompatibility on Sunday
while away from office, comfy chair, all software, internet connection
(*fast* internet connection) and some peace.
BootMagic is bonus on Partition Magic CD.

The point is, Partition Magic does work with DOS, Win9x, NT Workstation,
Win2k, WinXP and Linux (and few others). I don't see why it wouldn't
work with some antique NT server.

 

[elevmike]

Panic Mode,

NT server has something called Disk Administrator. DA lets you format, partition, change drive letters etc.. I dont know why, but Power Quest says no partion Magic on NT server. Since I'm no expert I listen to the authors of both applications.

It seems that I have to update ATAPI.SYS but this seems to mean a whole new re-install and configuration of NT Server, and I dont really feel up to that.

It looks like I'll need to install two drives instead of one for now.

But wait!! I found this little check box on the corner of the Properties Window for the drive. It's called "compress files" I checked the box and bought myself an extra 3gb. Problem Solved!!!
It might run a little slower but what the hey..

 

[panic mode]

As you please...
Disk Administratos still exists in all NT based systems
(Win2k and WinXP included). It's just burried under
Computer Management, Storage, Disk Management.

 

[Eric Nelson]

I asked our 'resident' IT guy about this, Mike, and he suggested you read this link...

http://www.htl-steyr.ac.at/~morg/drivers/NT_Atapi/

Seems it's a bit more involved than simply copying files.

beerchug

-Eric

 

[elevmike]

Eirc,

The link you provided seems to be dead, or incomplete. I'd like to read it if you could re-post.

Thanks, Mike.

 

[Eric Nelson]

I just tried it and it woks fine. Anyone else having problems reaching it?...

Maybe the link is >8GB, so only YOU can't read it?...

beerchug

-Eric

 

[JesperMP]

Link is OK.
But yesterday there were a lot of Internet problems. I wonder how much internet traffic that is NOT spam or worms

 

[rsdoran]

NT ATAPI Driver for large harddisks
Driver Disk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. How do I install on a disk larger than 8GB?

A. The Microsoft supplied generic IDE driver (Atapi.sys) may not be fully compatible with drives larger that 8 GB. This issue only affects IDE-based drives 8 GB and larger however Service Pack 4 includes an updated ATAPI.SYS allowing access to disks greater than 8GB.

Windows 2000 will support (bootable) partitions larger than 8GB provided the booting controllers BIOS supports EXT INT-13 BIOS calls.

The system board BIOS must support and recognize drives larger than 8 GB before Windows NT can access the entire drive. You can verify this ability by entering into the BIOS or contacting your system board manufacturer. To use the SP4 ATAPI.EXE under NT 4.0 perform the following:

Download the updated Atapi.sys from Microsoft's FTP server, ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/winnt/winnt-unsup-ed/fixes/nt40/atapi/ATAPI.EXE and copy the file to a blank floppy disk.
Run Atapi.exe on the diskette and the new Atapi.sys file will be extracted to the diskette. Label the disk "ATAPI Service Pack 4 IDE Driver." or something along those lines
Boot from the three setup disks supplied with Windows NT Server as per normal.
When asked if you would like setup to detect your mass storage devices, press S so that detection is skipped and you specify a mass storage device.
When setup list devices found, which should list none, press S again and insert the Microsoft ATAPI Service Pack 4 IDE Driver disk and press ENTER twice. After setup reads the disk and list the Microsoft ATAPI Service Pack 4 IDE driver, press ENTER to accept the driver.
Setup will now list Microsoft ATAPI Service Pack 4 IDE Driver as an installed driver. If you have additional drivers for other mass storage devices, press S, if not, press ENTER to continue through setup.
Setup should continue as per normal but it may prompt you to insert the disk labeled "Microsoft ATAPI Service Pack 4 IDE Driver Support Disk" at the copy phase after you have chosen or formatted a partition on a hard drive.
If you are using Microsoft Small Business Server 4.0 or 4.0a, follow these instructions:

Download the updated ATAPI.SYS from Microsoft's FTP server ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/winnt/winnt-unsup-ed/fixes/nt40/atapi/ATAPI.EXE and copy the file to a blank floppy disk.
Run Atapi.exe on the disk and the new Atapi.sys file will be extracted to the disk. Label the diskette "ATAPI Service Pack 4 IDE Driver."
Copy an updated file to Small Business Server (SBS) disk 2. To do this, rename the file Winnt.sif to Winnt.bak on disk 2. Then copy the Winnt.sif from the I386 folder on SBS CD 1 to SBS disk 2.
Boot from the modified SBS setup disks.
When the computer is booting off of disk 1 and the message "Setup is inspecting your hardware configuration..." is displayed, press F6 on the keyboard. NOTE: This is at a black screen and no visible indicators occur when you press F6.
When prompted, insert the modified disk 2 into the computer. The next screen that appears will prompt you to specify a mass storage drivers. To do that, press the S key and then arrow down to the listing of OTHER.
Insert the Microsoft ATAPI Service Pack 4 IDE Driver disk and press ENTER twice.
After setup reads the disk and list the Microsoft ATAPI Service Pack 4 IDE driver, press ENTER to accept the driver.
Setup will now list "Microsoft ATAPI Service Pack 4 IDE Driver" as a installed driver. If you have any more drivers for other mass storage devices, press S; if not, press ENTER to continue through setup. NOTE: Because we are using a modified version of Winnt.sif, you will be prompted to insert disks 2 and 3 several times.
Make sure you format or convert the partition to NTFS as SBS requires it.
Setup should continue through normally but it will prompt you to insert the disk labeled "Microsoft ATAPI Service Pack 4 IDE Driver Support Disk" at the copy phase after you have chosen or formatted a partition on a hard drive.
Running ATAPI.EXE creates the files below:

ATAPI.SYS
DISK1
OEMSETUP.INF
readme.txt
TXTSETUP.OEM
The NT 4.0 SP4 atapi.sys file is neither necessary nor supported for Windows Terminal Server Edition. If you try to use it, you may get a message to the effect that you don't have the necessary component installed. As long as you stick to the 2GB/8GB install limits, this extension is not necessary.

Apparently, Microsoft refuses to support booting NT from any partition bigger than 8 GB for SCSI. The newer Adaptec 2940U2W cards are set up so that NT cannot be booted if the partition is larger than 8 GB, but unfortunately the older Adaptec cards still allow this largely undocumented "mistake" to occur.


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Zurück zum Inhaltsverzeichnis. Readme - Roger Morgan 1999 L.Änderung 01. January 2003

 

[Eric Nelson]

Thanks Ron. That makes it easier... :nodi:

Now why didn't I think of doing something that simple...

beerchug

-Eric

 

[rsdoran]

I dunno, maybe I am just good at simple things.

Mike
I built and sold computers for years. When the 9gb Cheetahs, 10000 rpm scsi, came out everyone wanted them usually in a RAID system. I never had problems installing NT Server 4 on these 9 gb drives was wondering why you were/are having a problem.

I always partitioned the drives first as NTFS then did the install.

 

[elevmike]

This is the problem.

Well actually two problems: 1) I'm no expert. and really dont want to be.

2) I installed the system on a 8gb drive some 5 years ago. I was hoping to update the drive without going through the whole install process from scrap. The very prevelent "ATAPI.SYS" doc. seems to presume that your doing a NEW install of NT 4. I must have read this document about 20 times and can now recite it like the "our father", but that doesnt mean I get it; or maybe I do. (a new install of nt)

I cant bear to redo NT because it took 5 years to get to where I am with all the configurations and other software etc...

Additionally I had installed all of the service packs and am up to SP6a. I was hoping to avoid a re-install of NT and reconfiguraging everything all over again. I was really looking for a Hot fix i guess.

Ron, Does Disk Administrator show the whole drive on your systems?

What am I missing, or not getting?? (Please dont mention the Bios)

Thanks

Mike.

 

[elevmike]

Ron,

If you are reading this...

Can I do the "ATAPI" thing and then copy the current NT configuation onto the New hard drive? You see, what I dont know is the steps involved AFTER installing the ATAPI.Sys to retain my current configurations (users, permissions, other software etc)..

Thanks, Mike

 

[rsdoran]

You have several options actually. You may call me a DA because until I was driving to work this morning I DID NOT UNDERSTAND the problem.

I think it goes like this. You installed NT4 on another drive some time ago on an 8GB hdd..you have now added the 120GB drive to that system but it only sees 8GB. DA on NT, which is on the 8GB does not see but 8GB of the 120GB.

What I would do is install NT on the 120GB using the SP4 disks with the new atapi.sys file....NOTE: leave the old 8GB out of it, maybe even disconnect and do a totally NEW INSTALL on the 120gb.

Once the new install is complete verify that you see the 120GB then add the 8gb as a second hdd...do not use CS select, make the 120gb the Primary master and 8gb slave.

There are several ways to do what I am about to suggest but once both drives are installed then you should be able to copy the old windows to the new windows and have your same setup. Give it time before changing anything on the 8GB drive.

Someone mentioned Partition Magic, no it isnt meant to work with NT 4 BUT it can setup the partitions before install to NTFS...NT actually creates FAT16 then converts to NTFS later in the install. IF you have the drive previously partitioned with NTFS then the install is usually smoother and faster because it will recognize the partitions.

Another thing PM can do is make multiple partions of 8GB with NTFS that your existing server may be able to recognize. To test this you can use dos and make alot of 2gb drives that also may be recognized. PM just makes this process easier and can do NTFS. NT does not recognize FAT32 (WIN98) and vice versa, it can FAT16.

This is an option that may take a day to fully implement but it offers the option of RETAINING the old drive as is and possibly making a new larger drive that has all data on the old drive.

I dont recommend cloning, using Drive Copy, Ghost etc, because it will copy the existing drivers which you dont want because you need new drivers for the atapi.sys.

I also failed to mention that the Cheetahs were scsi and that has a bearing on the partition thing.