You got to love customers

[duckie112]

Once I was working at a troubleshooting company as an internship. The troubleshooting was for PC's and household devices. Had a customer on the line wich started like this: My computer isn't booting up when I press the on button.
Me: Sir, do you have the power cord plugged in?
Him: Let me see. Ok never mind it is plugged in now and is booting up.

Seriously I got this sort of calls at least 10 times a day and 5-15 times a day real problems. It was quite funny though. First day I started there they told me: Whenever someone calls and say their computer isn't booting up tell them to plug in the power cord.
When I heard that for the first time I thought if they were making jokes but after handling a few phonecalls it seems they didn't.
Another time at a repairing company for household devices I had a customer with a problem on his VCR: I was watching Snow White with my kid when suddenly the VCR caught fire. The fire went through the video tape slot, I extinguished it and opened up the case where the tape was melted down so I removed it.
He still had warranty for 1 week left and first thing I noticed was that the circuit board was all burned but the case was unharmed and there was no sign of any video tape parts that shouldve got stuck on the circuit board. After a few questioning it was a fact that he opened the case before the fire and burned the circuit board himself to get a new 1 before the warranty was gone.
I do the same kind of thing with laptop warranty for 4 years. But I do it smart. Let it fell from a table and blame the dog.

 

[gbradley]

...
I do the same kind of thing with laptop warranty for 4 years. But I do it smart. Let it fell from a table and blame the dog.

Not something I would do, let alone brag about.

 

[dahnuguy]

My favorite line when I am approached by a tech (who has usually just finished replacing something):
"The PLC program is messed up."

My typical response:
"Really? The program which has been running for the past five years and hasn't been changed by anyone? What a coincidence, it managed to get messed up after work was done on the equipment."

No, it couldn't possibly be a field device. Actuators never stop, solenoids never die, thermocouples never break, RTD's last forever, motors always work, and valves never get stuck. Yes, it MUST be the program.

Yes you failed to write the software such that any change in the field devices would stop the machine and inform the tech of exactly which device it is, and where it is located and how it works, why it is needed and what it does and how to change it, and attach the ordering information.

Why not spit out a barcode and shipping label to return the old part while your in there?

The problem here is of course, people who know how to use a PLC, don't always put enough information on the hMI for people who don't use PLCs.

So these people see you hook up a laptop and wiggle some wires and nobody knows what you changed but its working now.

And no one will ever believe your lame excuse about a loose connection on the input terminal, or that you didn't edit the code.

They saw you with it open.

Nobody looks at things that aren't broken.

You were looking at that software for hours.

 

[adel1961]

idiots every where

 

[JeffKiper]

I just spent 2 hours on the phone with a customer that wanted me to revise my BOM. He said I couldn't do this and had to have that. I finally asked him where is the spec that I have to quote to. He reluctantly gave me the spec book.

So basically I get to redo the BOM that I spent 6 hours on. You got to love customers.

 

[AdamG8GXP]

This reminds of what happened here.

I work for an OEM and customer cancelled a PO in 2008. Now About 18 months ago they decided to go with same PO. But now their specs are different so a lot of parts had to be changed, which is no big deal. When the electrical prints were sent for approval for the 1st, 2nd and probably 3rd time they were rejected because they came up with new specs each time. How are you supposed to design something when by the time you complete it they change their specs?

On top of stuff like requiring us to use safety Siemens PLCs instead of safety relays because "it is cheaper" according to customer. And forcing to use remote IOs on a machine that takes 20² feet. And then spending many extra weeks on commissioning and learning the remote IO and safety PLC to find out their devices from their spec going into safety IO can't have certain things set the way customer REQUIRES it for them to pay.

And after all that, getting all the prints approved and machine is built to that, they sent engineers to sign off on it. Then these guys nit pick on multiple things and require changes to sign off on it AFTER they approved all the prints!

Now I don't know about finances, if the PO stayed the same or price was adjusted, we are just engineers here, but I don't know how the owner can justify those jobs. The customers are coming back and are huge though. I'm not a businessman.

We build the same machines and each time we are learning how to commission it for each customer (big corporations) because their PLC code specs changed and have to reverse engineer their templates each time without any documentation (for example, their spec manual page for OEM HMI screen is blank a blank HMI screen with text box "example of OEM screen", and no explanations on how their buttons or messages work of anything that is required by their spec on HMI).

And customers say their spec is there so they have less amount of different spare parts. I call BS on that if you change your specs every 6 months and I am talking about x pin cables, proxes and things that can be physically damaged or just wear out.

I let the owner mind it. I just follow and re-do and spend more time doing it (hourly ). I don't care about schedules, that's customers and owners problem when you do this ****. It works now, it was approved, but now your guy won't sign off on it until we make changes he wants? I leave work issues at work.

That's what our customers do to us. It's like I would order a V6 Mustang. Then when it came in I would tell dealer and Ford that I am not signing off on it unitl it gets supercharged V8 with manual transmission, metallic paint and extra air bags, tires with more grip and bigger brakes for safety for the same PO.

 

[OkiePC]

...
we are just engineers here, but I don't know how the owner can justify those jobs. The customers are coming back and are huge though. I'm not a businessman.

Generally each change order is accompanied by a PO or adjustment with four figures or more after the dollar sign.

We build the same machines and each time we are learning how to commission it for each customer (big corporations) because their PLC code specs changed and have to reverse engineer their templates each time without any documentation (for example, their spec manual page for OEM HMI screen is blank a blank HMI screen with text box "example of OEM screen", and no explanations on how their buttons or messages work of anything that is required by their spec on HMI).

I hate that too. Template maintenance and associated learning curves end up taking the efficiency gains away unless they are perfect. I have yet to see perfect one, although they surely exist.

What's wrong with simple hand written code matched to the process?

Why must I have a swiss army knife wonder function that takes more overhead than a list of brute force instructions?

Yeah, I once chased stuck sequence in a tire machine through no less than five "aliases" through a PLC-5/SLC5/05 1394 multi axis servo system because of "templates". There, at the end of the chase, through integers to interface bits to more integers sent over RIO to the SLC/1394 Turbo was the prox. switch signal from the one buried in the turret with a pinched cable...

And customers say their spec is there so they have less amount of different spare parts. I call BS on that if you change your specs every 6 months and I am talking about x pin cables, proxes and things that can be physically damaged or just wear out.

I let the owner mind it. I just follow and re-do and spend more time doing it (hourly ). I don't care about schedules, that's customers and owners problem when you do this ****. It works now, it was approved, but now your guy won't sign off on it until we make changes he wants? I leave work issues at work.

That's what our customers do to us. It's like I would order a V6 Mustang. Then when it came in I would tell dealer and Ford that I am not signing off on it unitl it gets supercharged V8 with manual transmission, metallic paint and extra air bags, tires with more grip and bigger brakes for safety for the same PO.

I seriously doubt the PO isn't amended/appended/adjusted $omewhere along the line.

 

[Bill Valedis]

Some people have no respect for others...

 

[JeffKiper]

I had to call Ron Beaufort because I was getting lost in following a single bit from an HMI to turn on a valve.

4 or 5 AFL with math in each step addressing another FAL. then a MWM to DeviceNet I/O blocks. The customer was furious once I started to explain why I couldn't just look and see what the problem was. It looks like I am going to get to re-write the entire project in simple basic logic.

I had a customer that said I couldn't use SQO because no one but the original programmer could follow it. I made him a deal that I would write 1 days worth of code in his way then a day in mine and let him see the difference. If he didn't like my way I wouldn't charge him for that day I spent doing it with SQO. He agreed with that smirk look on his face. After he saw the logic and documentation u got tk use the SQO. Very basic machine if inputs match outputs index to the next output sequence.

 

[AdamG8GXP]

Generally each change order is accompanied by a PO or adjustment with four figures or more after the dollar sign.
...
I seriously doubt the PO isn't amended/appended/adjusted $omewhere along the line

That's what the company doing the loader for our machine, also working from the 2008 PO, did and got it. They stood their ground to get their prints approved and when customer didn't sign off on it when it was ready to be packed because of more changes. Then our owner talked to them about extra costs once he found out they got the paid for changes. EDIT: it might be because of their spec changes the whole project is delayed about 6 months and production managers are furious there which seems like have the most power in customer's company.
Or he will get them or spare parts, service or other business he does with them.

It's like customer's guys who send the PO don't talk to their engineers who sign off on it. Or more likely our owner thinks that he sells "the same machine" without ever looking at customer's current specs but then he gets to deal with it and doesn't blame us.

 

[AdamG8GXP]

My favorite during start up on customer's site is their engineer, manager or whoever will take care of our machine asks: "How come it doesn't have X? All our machines have X". It doesn't have X because whoever bought it, bought it this way and never asked for X, but we can add it. We just have to find out how much it will cost. Then no one mentions X again.

So far only once I added X when customer's maintenance manager went to their purchasing office and explained that our system will work better, without damaging their product, if they get X. It was just an extra photo eye on their conveyor to our system but the only time X wasn't forgotten when it wasn't free. Edit: oh yeah, it was free from their inventory.

 

[AdamG8GXP]

Another story I heard from my coworker:

Him and 2 mechanical guys were sent out on a service call. 5+ hour car ride they arrive at the plant. The maintenance manager took them to the machine he needed fixed and discovered that it is in production. Then production manager comes and him and guy who called us almost get into the fist fight after yelling into each other faces and shoving about shutting down the machine. Production manager won because they have to make these products and they came back home.
Machine wasn't fixed, parts just kinda go through it without work being done to them that is required, the product they are in will fail prematurely, and we got paid for the service call. But they have to keep the production up!

 

[a062549]

I think that once the person writing the scope of work to the contract adds the "any changes to the approved drawings MUST be approved by ALL parties" usually gets both sides undivided attention.
Bad things like mentioned above usually are caused by the writer not having any idea the you can't simply replace a spec'd part with whatever the customer now wants.
For instance, a customer wants to replace a MicroLogix XXX with a Compactlogix L23. Customer is thinking about the same price. Engineer is thinking $1550 difference to upgrade. Not including the CLX software they would have to buy if they didn't already have it. And just wait until the customer finds out what that is going to cost them for the software!
It's kinda like a bidding war, someone just keeps going lower. That's is fine, until the low bidder is no longer in business.