OT How to handle break downs

Hey all.
I am 8 months into my first job. For some reason I have problems in handling the break downs. Everyrything blacks out for me. I am trying to control but still i tend to panic. I always end up doing stupid things. I am sure i can do the job when there is no pressure of breaddowns. Please some experiences and tips to handle to this.

PS: People working my company want to hide everything. There is no communication. Everybody wants to make impression. Oh look this guy came and did the job.Oh look this guy doesnt know anything. Sorry for such a long post.

See links below for a couple of threads on the subject of troubleshooting.

You must first KNOW how the machine is supposed to work ( sounds basic, but most don't know all the little things). I then put my hands in my pockets and do what I call "Front Panel Milking" just stand back and look. It's amazing what you can see by just watching before putting your hands on anything.
I like to ask the questions first, I don't want others troubleshooting for me because it sometimes sends me off on tangents ( wrongs ones).

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=7032

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=2084

Spend whatever time you can watching the machines while they are running correctly. Talk to and become friends with the machine operators during these times. Once you learn what the machines are supposed to do they will be easier to fix. Don't be afraid to get others to help, nobody knows everything. This will help manage the panic.

bornwild said:

Hey all.
I am 8 months into my first job. For some reason I have problems in handling the break downs. Everyrything blacks out for me. I am trying to control but still i tend to panic. I always end up doing stupid things. I am sure i can do the job when there is no pressure of breaddowns. Please some experiences and tips to handle to this.

PS: People working my company want to hide everything. There is no communication. Everybody wants to make impression. Oh look this guy came and did the job.Oh look this guy doesnt know anything. Sorry for such a long post.

Click to expand...

OK so here I have been
1. Looking at machine I know next to nothing about and trying to figure out what it does
2. I got someone who is telling me what he thinks is wrong or worse yet three of em arguing. Now I agree it is wise to listen to operator but I listen to these guys long enough to find out they are all wrong. Then major challenge is to get rid of em so I can think.
3. I also have this supervisor wringing his hands that the world is going to stop without the machine and when will I have it running? If you can get rid of him too.
4 I need to talk with the operator. But I gotta do 3 because if the operator made a mistake he will NOT tell me the truth with management around. Promise him you will not tell anyone else no matter what.

Now I need to find a manual and the prints.

Dan Bentler

Similar to leitmotif, I like to bring the salesperson along and have him run interference - basically getting rid of or distracting everyone other than the operator.

I always familarise myself with new machinery by running it,As mentioned previously you can be sent on a tangent by operators.

also take the time to surround yourself with literature relevant to the machinery and learn from it.

Good/knowledgeable Faultfinders don't fall apart in breakdown situations - they have sound/proven techniques to identify and most importantly test components to identify/rectify problems.

lastly learn from your mistakes and keep building experience.

I agree with the front panel milking and that a good operator is invaluable.

Sometimes, you just need to weigh up all the evidence. What was it doing just before it stopped? Are there any alarm messages or lights? (I am amazed where I work because the number of personnel who moan about one of our robots because it stops. They cannot - or will not - look at the HMI to see "Waiting for arms open sensor" message).

If you are unfortunate to take over a breakdown, DO NOT believe anything you are told by the engineer going home. "I've tested the motor and it is fine......" test it yourself!!!

Finally, don't be afraid to call the equipment supplier, if you cannot get to the bottom of the problem yourself. Instead of losing my cool, if I cannot solve a problem I say to my boss "I need to call the manufacturer for support" This tells my boss the problem is more serious than he thinks and he is more grateful when it gets fixed! Also, it shows you are taking positive action.

Of course, you can always do what several of my colleagues do, say "I think it's a plc problem and we need to wait for Mark to come in....."

leitmotif said:

OK so here I have been
1. Looking at machine I know next to nothing about and trying to figure out what it does
2. I got someone who is telling me what he thinks is wrong or worse yet three of em arguing. Now I agree it is wise to listen to operator but I listen to these guys long enough to find out they are all wrong. Then major challenge is to get rid of em so I can think.
3. I also have this supervisor wringing his hands that the world is going to stop without the machine and when will I have it running? If you can get rid of him too.
4 I need to talk with the operator. But I gotta do 3 because if the operator made a mistake he will NOT tell me the truth with management around. Promise him you will not tell anyone else no matter what.

Now I need to find a manual and the prints.

Dan Bentler

Click to expand...

Spot on

Dan Bentler's points are good, especially #3 and #4.

Think about what the supervisor needs, other than "to be back in production". He probably needs to tell his boss, and he needs to be able to plan for other downtime... maybe he needs to stop deliveries, or cool down a boiler, or open overflow tanks.

I like to tell supervisors "Give me twenty minutes for diagnostics and I will tell you what we need to do next." Most supervisors will stand and watch you for five, ten, or fifteen minutes. But when you tell them twenty, they head off somewhere else and usually don't come back for an hour.

I always interview operators and ask "show me", not "tell me". When I ask about the color of an LED or the error message, I frequently add "it's OK if you don't remember". This cuts down on the number of false reports that waste time and lead to incorrect diagnoses.

Don't jump on the computer right away, even though you know that online monitoring of the PLC program is often the most productive troubleshooting method. I had an awful project manager once blame me for all the problems in a system: "If the problem isn't in the PLC, why are you always looking at the PLC ?!" You don't necessarily need a PLC program to tell you to check for the obvious stuff... if a conveyor isn't running, find the motor overload or drive and see if it's tripped. By the time you find the motor or drive, you'll know the motor number or output number to look for in the PLC program.

Be ready to admit when you don't know something. I like to say "I don't know. Let's find out." It moves the focus from me to the team or group.

markie said:

Of course, you can always do what several of my colleagues do, say "I think it's a plc problem and we need to wait for Mark to come in....."

Click to expand...

Been around long enough to know it's ALWAYS a PLC problem, just because the head of the sensor got sheared off, the wire got snagged and broken, the motor got jammed and blew the O/L, the power went out and a fuse blew...it's always the program. My personal favourite is "The machine doesn't work, must be a problem with the program" ... Come in, pull out e-stop, charge 4 hours, leave.

bornwild said:

Hey all.
I am 8 months into my first job. For some reason I have problems in handling the break downs. Everyrything blacks out for me. I am trying to control but still i tend to panic. I always end up doing stupid things. I am sure i can do the job when there is no pressure of breaddowns. Please some experiences and tips to handle to this.

PS: People working my company want to hide everything. There is no communication. Everybody wants to make impression. Oh look this guy came and did the job.Oh look this guy doesnt know anything. Sorry for such a long post.

Click to expand...

As others have said, talking to the operator is key. I am an integrator, and often have never seen the machine I'm working on. I rely on the operator, to tell me what it was doing when it stopped, or what it is not doing. Remember that the position of the machine and when it stopped, is very important, and will tell you alot about where to look. Also as mentioned... don't take for granted what someone else has checked. You will also need to filter what the operator is telling you. Sometimes they want to troubleshoot for you, and often they think they see things that aren't really happening. Most importantly keep movingg forward watch the machine for patterns, gather information, and test where you can do it safely.

I know plc problem works like charm but it has some downside . Motor windings blown, blame comes on the program. Load jammed, plc program faulty

To a lot of operators, supervisors, managers, and so forth, the PLC is a "Black Box" (or green, or white, or blue...) that does STUFF. No one knows what that STUFF is, but it sure does STUFF. Even though the program is tested, tried, and true, there's something about the mystery box that always, ALWAYS allows the operator to shift the blame to the PLC, and to YOU.

Keep in mind, I have seen fully tested and implemented programs fail, because the "midnight operator" does something in a sequence that is perfectly legit, but no one, not the engineers, other operators, nor the programmer, ever dreamed that would take place.

Also, those "midnight operators" have no name. When you go in in the morning, you'll find the sequence out of whack, the ESD in the corner pushed, and the line is dead. All you will hear is "it happened during the night, while I was on break for lunch. Everything just STOPPED!"

Yeah. You gotta grow some shoulders in this business.

Among other things...

Lot's of great advice here on this subject... some pointers that I will write down for future exploitation.

Here's my two cents and it's all about focus:
1. What is the problem? What is not the problem? (boundary conditions). "The robot just stops while picking up the part." "The conveyor is fine."
2. Where does it happen? Where doesn't it happen? "It stops sometimes will picking the part." "It never happens while quenching the part in the tank."
3. When does it happen? When doesn't it happen? "It always seems to happen on 2nd shift just before lunchtime." "It never happens during 1st or 3rd shift or the weekends."

The point is to focus yourself into the area of concern. This allows you to ingore the irrelevalent and 'focus'. Of course to do that, you need to, if possible, do the many things suggested by the others like learning what and how the machine(s) work before the breakdown.

bornwild said:

Hey all.
I am 8 months into my first job. For some reason I have problems in handling the break downs. Everyrything blacks out for me. I am trying to control but still i tend to panic. I always end up doing stupid things. I am sure i can do the job when there is no pressure of breaddowns. Please some experiences and tips to handle to this.

PS: People working my company want to hide everything. There is no communication. Everybody wants to make impression. Oh look this guy came and did the job.Oh look this guy doesnt know anything. Sorry for such a long post.

Click to expand...

One way to facillitate communication is to be seen to be proactive. Get out there, watch the machines or SCADA, read the manuals whenever you can. Walk the line, talk to operators when you are not doing breakdowns. Identify potential failure points and speculate on how you would solve them. Troubleshooting, like anything, is a combination of logic and intuition and you get better at both with practice. Learn where the low-hanging fruit is (HMI messages, inspection of the mechanical system, things out of adjustment).

Lastly, on a personal note - it is good you recognize your weakness in staying calm. Everyone hates it when the person brought in to solve the problem is freaking out, and the lack of trust that can cause can make it harder to solve the problem. Learn to bluff a bit - project confidence and calm, and people will then tend to give you the space you need to work it out. You would be surprised how many ice-cold troubleshooters get nervous, but simply know how to hide it from anybody looking for emotions to feed off.