Automation Direct works just as good as the AB slc500

[CaseyK]

Although the poll is not "scientific", it's about what I would expect. However I'm somewhat suprised to see AD in 3rd and ahead of GE.

I offer my old poll, for comparisom. Perhaps a new poll is in order...

LINK: What PLC would you like to try next?

AD, Entertron, and Omron did quite well!

regards.....casey

 

[elevmike]

Monkeyhead,

I understand that AB & GE stuff can be purchased a deep discounts that meet or beat AD prices...IF you purchase large quanities. AD wont deal at all.

Casey,

Your poll an the one on Mr. PLC are different. (What's your favoriate, and What would you try next.) On your poll I voted for Entertron. The Entertron stuff looks very interesting, but my big problem is taking the time to redevelope our controllers for the Entertron PLCs. As of right now it takes about 15-30 minutes to spit out a panel design, prints, and program configuration for any given project. Going with a different PLC would take days. So I'm locked in for now.

 

[CaseyK]

Mike:

I think it is pretty much understood that AB is the hands down (or is it out) favorite.

I am very impressed with the Entertron units. Specially if you want to keep people out of your ladder logic. I think that almost everyone who tries one will be impressed. Remember, you can't please everyone!

I have done some wild stuph with GE Fanuc 9030's and Rockwell Reliance AutoMax's, that I haven't attempted with an Entertron unit yet. But then, they were pretty big applications, too.

I have used GE as my base for comparison over the years, now I also compare against Entertron.

I have used AD in the past, and may again in the future.

I almost became an AB fan recently, but that job fell through.

Correction, AB user.

Anyway, have a great holiday.

best regards.....casey

 

[MarkTTU]

i'm rather fond of AB's 500 series stuff, but i think some of their pricing is highway robbery. do they give huge discounts to OEM's? I can't see building an entire cabinet out of their components otherwise.

I've never been offered anything significant enough for me to even consider switching from AD, but we're a pretty small OEM... though AD might disagree with me on that last bit.

Mike, I'm in the same situation. I don't want to think of the hours it would take to transition away from AD these days... Bit of a dangerous position to be in really.

 

[PhilipW]

Those of us who have been here a while will have seen this kind of "lets bash AB because AD is cheaper" threads before, which kind of go nowhere and prove nothing. The simple fact is that AB has higher list prices than AD because most of the market (but surely not all) prefers the extra service and added value that a GOOD local distributor provides.

Here in NZ Rockwell Automation is in the process of transitioning much of it's day-to-day business to regional distributors. By comparison to the huge businesses that the US distributors are, ours are very small beer, at this stage 2-5 man outfits, each turning over less than a few million a year. But experience has finally convinced RA that even at this scale distributors add a worthwhile value.

The key is that most RA distributors turnover is around 40-50% AB business, the rest is other items such as cable, motors, hardware, etc that add considerable value to the total package, plus local people who can deal with you on a first-name long-term basis. ie they know when you phone within seconds, who you are, what you have purchased, what you are trying to do with it, and how urgently to prioritise their response. This kind of thing is very hard to replicate with just a website and a call center.

A good distributor knows how to help you over the awkward spots, solve those ugly commercial issue that arise from time to time, and generally keep you in the loop with timely information, updates and suggestions about how you might do the next project more effectively. This isn't just being nice, it's in their commercial interests to keep you happy because whatever your size or operation, YOU are local and their reputation locally is important to them.

Of course not all distributors live up to the standard at all times. I am perfectly aware of this, so no flood of "my lousy distributor" stories please. But the fact is that it is a business model that seems to work reasonably well most of the time for most of the people.

The other truly silly aspect of the original post is the idea that the SLC500 is somehow the only product Rockwell makes and that it is the only product by which is should be judged. Sheesh!! First launched in 1988, it is a derivative of the even more venerable PLC5, it boasted the first 32-bit Windows based Logic Editor (RSLogix500) on the automation market and many millions of modules have been sold. As a market follower I should very much hope and expect that AD could at least match it in price and performance, but the SLC500 is no longer Rockwell's price/ performance market leader; that baton has been passed to the new generation of Logix products.

Please note: If you have not used ControlLogix or CompactLogix on at least several decent sized projects, please think before posting fatuous and simplistic comments about "how AD must be better than AB because they are cheaper". This makes about as much sense as saying all Korean cars are better than all Japanese cars because they are cheaper!!

 

[rsdoran]

Please note: If you have not used ControlLogix or CompactLogix on at least several decent sized projects, please think before posting fatuous and simplistic comments about "how AD must be better than AB because they are cheaper". This makes about as much sense as saying all Korean cars are better than all Japanese cars because they are cheaper!!

I am as egotistical and hard headed as you are so I will step in at this time and make a correction

Automation Direct works just as good as the AB slc500
Well after 6 months of manufacturing a new machine and converting a program from allen bradley slc 5/03 to automation direct dl205 with the d2-260 processor, I have come to the conclusion that the automation direct products are as good if not better than allen bradley. I have been told numerous times that the allen bradley is more ROBUST than the AD. Well scan times are almost exactly the same. The main thing I like is the $2,000.00 savings. Is there something coming down the road that I should be aware of? Is AD to good to be true? EVERYTHING SEEMS GREAT.

Billy Seay

The original post was a direct comparison of that SLC 500 to the AD 205 and the savings involved.

You can expound on the CLX line from now to doomsday...does not nor will it make it the end all plc. The cost alone is prohibitive to many to use for many applications.

I stated this before and will again...For every million dollar application there are MILLIONS of applications that only pay in the 1000s. Its kind of hard to pay out 1000's for a plc, modules and software when you can buy something that will work as well for alot less.

Personally..ITS A DEVICE, it does what we want or we get one that does. I dont care what brand it is...if an input condition is true then I expect the plc and program to correctly make the output(s) true based on the conditions I allocated.

Your history points werent impressive either, Koyo was around at that time too. As for performance the CLX line may have the edge, not sure it has "yet" exceeded the SLC/Micrologix sales performance. It definitely has not matched pricing.

This will be my last debating post, any post I make after this will hopefully pertain to the information requested without any personal opinion involved.

 

[PhilipW]

I have come to the conclusion that the automation direct products are as good if not better than allen bradley.

not exactly a direct DL205 v SCL500 comparison claim Ron!

I stand by my history lesson, Rockwell has been a market heavyweight and leader globally for far longer than Koyo, who have really only managed to gain presence outside of Asia either by leveraging off other companies brand names, or more recently via a low-cost internet tactic. Suits some, not others.

One point I will offer, if Koyo owned a market leading distribution channel as Rockwell do, do you imagine that they would disembowel it by undercutting with it sales via the internet? Of course not. Does any seller deliberately choose to sell their product for less than their competitor if they didn't have to? When was the last you rolled into your boss's office and demand a pay CUT ?

It constantly amazes me that so many people confuse cheaper with better and if that makes me egotistical and hardheaded, so be it.

 

[JesperMP]

Well after 6 months of manufacturing a new machine and converting a program from allen bradley slc 5/03 to automation direct dl205 with the d2-260 processor, I have come to the conclusion that the automation direct products are as good if not better than allen bradley.

He is definitely comparing the DL205 with the SLC500.

I do not want to bash AB. As a matter of fact, I have been very pleased with the SLC5/04 until now.
That said, it is obviously a platform that you should not select for new developments.
It is indeed a bit pricey, other platforms do provide the same or better functionality at a lower price.
It is more than middleaged now. It will be here for a long time still, but you can glimpse the end of the line for it.

 

[PhilipW]

Come on ...he extrapolates from comparing one AD product to one AB product and then jumps to a fatuous statement that :

I have come to the conclusion that the automation direct products are as good if not better than allen bradley.

how much more black and white do you need to get?

And of course the SLC500 is past middle-aged; I've repeatedly made that point to numerous posters in here who still seem to have not managed to understood. Launched in 1988...almost 17 years ago it is definitely in the last 25% of it's commercial life...indeed many of it's competitors of the same era have long since been retired. It's longevity is however a tribute to it's huge installed base globally, and the huge number of RSLogix500 users who have yet to feel the need to migrate to anything better.

Cheaper, no. Best of Class, no longer. Best choice for a new project, no. And the product by which one can jump to the conclusion that AD is better than AB?

 

[JesperMP]

I do not interpret the original posters statements as that he meant a general comparison between AD and AB.
I read "the .. products" as referring to the mentioned models.
However, the sentence CAN be understood the other way.

 

[bbseay]

my original post was meant to let others know there is an alternative to AB. I had a local integrator try to influence me to use the 5/04. The 5/04 processor cost 10-15 times more that the 260 processor from AD. The whole system would have cost thousands more. Did I get the same exact results with the AD product? Yes. I have used the 5/03 and the 260 and see no difference between the 2 in MY application. In other words I don't need anthing else. I want to do my best to save customers money. I am not dealing with million dollar corporations I am dealing with mom and pops life savings and have to be mindful of that.

I know there are things that AB can do that AD cannot, BUT overkill in my application can cost my customers thousands more. SO why overcharge for overkill? THIS NOT A BASH AB POST.

Billy

 

[elevmike]

When was the last you rolled into your boss's office and demand a pay CUT ?

About three years ago. It was a nasty divorce issue though. I refused the request, so he pawned his OT on other willing conspirators...


I wholly agree with Billy's last post. The application should allways dictate the equpipment. In 80% of my apps AD is by far the proper choice. In most others it's a 9030. We have a bid out right now an a large system where I plan on subing out the control system. After a lot of discuession with my vendor, it was decided to go with AB. If we get the job this will be a first for us....

Philip,

The 205 like the SLC is an older platform, But between Facts, Host, & Koyo, they have done a pretty good job of keeping it updated. A few years ago they introduced the 260 CPU, and expandable bases, and a few newer modules. In it's current state I'm sure that it's a very capeable PLC as compaired with most (not all) anything out there. IMO longevity is an attribute, and my guess is the 205's going to be around for a very long time.

 

[MarkTTU]

Those of us who have been here a while will have seen this kind of "lets bash AB because AD is cheaper" threads before, which kind of go nowhere and prove nothing.

RANT

I wouldn't off hand say "AD is better than AB", but I would say AD is better than AB for my application.

I would also encourage anyone and everyone to look at what is best for them, ie, look outside the (typically AB) box from time to time. There is a lot to consider when looking at new suppliers and one thing that I think gets overlooked when talking about it is your relationship with your current supplier. If you've used a particular supplier (regardless of brand) for umpteen years, and they also are your supplier for lots of other components, then the best business decision may be to stick with brand X or Y just to keep the relationship... But if you can save a ton of money and either increase your profit margin, or undercut your competitors, then you might want to look at your options.

I would say that on average I get hit up to change PLC brand/type about every other month. I listen to what is said, but at the end of the day I need to be able to get all of OUR product's features into the least expensive, and most reliable panel I can. In what determines the least expensive, and most reliable panel there are a whole lot of things to look at; price of the PLC is just ONE of them...

Many of my comments are prefaced with "I'm an OEM" and there is a reason for that. I see a lot of comments about remembering what the time to write the program is worth; this is a good comment and probably more important than the cost of the PLC for MOST, but not ALL, of the people here. For me and a few others the cost of the PLC and other components on the panel starts to matter a whole lot more when you look at it from the perspective of the software is written (or mostly written), now I need to duplicate this panel 40 times per year for the next 2-4 years. Even a few hundred dollars difference starts to add up to "real money"...

/RANT

Is AB best? Is AD best? Is GE best? Well it really depends, but I think there are a lot of us (myself included) that get stuck inside the "box" when we're thinking about new projects.