Control logix Job posting of sorts..

[Hakutsuru]

Darren,

BTW, I just started my own automation LLC (last month), I would want to be there on start-up for my first job...I'm still looking for my first job, thanks for the offer...and hell your a friend I could not charge a friend...

Its too bad he was so quick to rule out covering the bar bill, eh? He could have a dozen automation engineers up there in a heartbeat.


-jeff

 

[DanYost]

I guess I will chime in. The DSPSX will definitely fit the bill. You may want to contact the guys at Rotalec, or whoever your local distributor is, to try to get a demo to see just how easy it can be.

Regards,
Dan

 

[504bloke]

I'd personally recommend a Red Lion Data Station Plus http://www.redlion.net/Products/HumanMachineInterface/DataStationPlus/DataStationPlus.html

They are quite simple to setup and only cost ~ $500 for the unit. The data is stored to a Compact Flash card in .csv format and can be accessed thru the ethernet port on it.

Just my 2 cents

You can also sync the CF data via FTP to a PC on ethernet somewhere for the data to be viewed in excel.

 

[geniusintraining]

Its too bad he was so quick to rule out covering the bar bill, eh? He could have a dozen automation engineers up there in a heartbeat.


-jeff

Jeff,

That 'bar bill' is up to... well lets just say more then most make in a year, we sucked it dry, search Smoke and Mirrors, then look for a thread that has a lot of replies the thread was named "plc", just don't bring it back to life, Phil and some others wanted it do fade away....

 

[hd_coop]

You can also sync the CF data via FTP to a PC on ethernet somewhere for the data to be viewed in excel.

Yup, although I prefer to use the websync utility since the files can be put directly in the network folder you want them rather than on the ftp server.

 

[darrenj]

wow..been a hecktic couple of days..so i havnt had time to check in...
Thanks all for suggestions, but isnt there a way to do this with out buying additoal hardware/softawre?

The plant is on the verge of going full blown scada withing the next 2 years so they are hesitant about buying new hardware/softawre untill they decide who and what they are going to do..however the plant mahanger is a realist and knows that if they decide in the next 2 years it will be 3 or 4 before its implimented..so he wants to try the "Cheaper" option...i could tell him there is no cheap option but that will just kill the project..i hate doing that.. so i was wondering if there was a work around..

i would at this time say go sens go..but i guess i now have to say congrats to the ducks... ...it hurts..just spend the last 3 hours in a hot tub watching and i was ready to cry at the end of the game....

congrats west cost...

d

 

[Pierre]

wow..been a hecktic couple of days..so i havnt had time to check in...
Thanks all for suggestions, but isnt there a way to do this with out buying additoal hardware/softawre?

The plant is on the verge of going full blown scada withing the next 2 years so they are hesitant about buying new hardware/softawre untill they decide who and what they are going to do..however the plant mahanger is a realist and knows that if they decide in the next 2 years it will be 3 or 4 before its implimented..so he wants to try the "Cheaper" option...i could tell him there is no cheap option but that will just kill the project..i hate doing that.. so i was wondering if there was a work around..

i would at this time say go sens go..but i guess i now have to say congrats to the ducks... ...it hurts..just spend the last 3 hours in a hot tub watching and i was ready to cry at the end of the game....

congrats west cost...

d

There are lots of cheap options.

Info is hard to get into a "public" area. I mean a network. Since your system is already on a network then its just a mather of grabbing it.

This is a pretty easy thing to do. Normaly, to do it cheap, or should I say the "least expansive way", you just have to pick which protocol you are the best at.

Serial DF1 transported on an Ethernet link?
OPC Client-Server over Ethernet?
DDE over just about anything?

Then the supply of the info to the "Users".

VB small app?
C#?
SQL Database on a central Server for all to see and use?

How big, how fast, how important in time and place?

All you have to do is fill the questionnaire and you almost have the answer.

Then all is left is the codes.

On this this AB sponsored site (could this be?) you will have a hard time to get an answer to any questions that includes AB AND the words "cheap".

 

[Pierre]

Wouldn't this be the "perfec" educational" project for yourself to get?

 

[darrenj]

Wouldn't this be the "perfec" educational" project for yourself to get?

It certainly would..the whole purpose of me being involved would be for that reason..

However i know nothing about how much time it would take..so i can not give them some firm numbers..

after looking at the replies from the good folks here i guess i will try and takle it on my own..however can someone give me a rough idea on hours for pricing?

 

[darrenj]

There are lots of cheap options.

Info is hard to get into a "public" area. I mean a network. Since your system is already on a network then its just a mather of grabbing it.

This is a pretty easy thing to do. Normaly, to do it cheap, or should I say the "least expansive way", you just have to pick which protocol you are the best at.

Serial DF1 transported on an Ethernet link?
OPC Client-Server over Ethernet?
DDE over just about anything?

Then the supply of the info to the "Users".

VB small app?
C#?
SQL Database on a central Server for all to see and use?

How big, how fast, how important in time and place?

All you have to do is fill the questionnaire and you almost have the answer.

Then all is left is the codes.

On this this AB sponsored site (could this be?) you will have a hard time to get an answer to any questions that includes AB AND the words "cheap".

see the problem pierre is i have no experiance with info grabbing over any of the networks, or VB, C, or SQL.. I am just a dumb old sparky who knows enough to get himself in trouble with PLC's !!

 

[geniusintraining]

Hi Darren,


Look at this http://www.kepware.com/

or if you go with Redlion they (Dan) may be able to give you some idea of what timeline you are talking, as far as a VB...I have only done 2 and it took me forever (also a dumb sparky)

I would still go with Redlion do to the support, see if they have more info on their website, they may have a sample

 

[russrmartin]

2 more cents

You mentioned that the facility is already talking about SCADA. This is exactly what you're contemplating. One thing that is necessary is access to these networks. If you currently have a PC, or some other box which has the ability to pull and store this data on each of these networks, then all you will need is some sort of SCADA software. Several brands have been mentioned in this post already, RSSQL, iFIX etc. This is the route I would recommend with future plans taken under consideration. The first installation is going to bite the bullet as far as time and software is concerned, but as you gain knowledge and experience with whatever package you decide to go with, this job will get easier and easier as your plant expands their SCADA requirements.

 

[geniusintraining]

More on the SCADA...

Darren,

Look here http://www.indusoft.com/ I have been playing with their software...they have a 30day (free) trial, so far it looks good, if you can prove you can do what they (your customer)wants/needs it will give you a good foundation to build on for the future and webserver is included

Remember it's not the reliability, profit margin or anything that makes sense...its all about the 'bells and whistles'

I just made a RSView application that everyone (engineers, CEO's, etc) can see from the home and see production numbers, downtime, etc...they love it, they think it's my best work???

They forgot about the phone call I got last week at 1am, when the plant was down and nothing would run until I found the short on the DH but they really love that application? hell I wrote it for a friend so he could see his data and have more time off from this place

You should be able to write the app then just show it to them...then they will just open their wallets and say take what you want

 

[Pierre]

see the problem pierre is i have no experiance with info grabbing over any of the networks, or VB, C, or SQL.. I am just a dumb old sparky who knows enough to get himself in trouble with PLC's !!

First, you know that you don't know. Hence wisdom.

Second, You have posted your questions and comments in a way that all have understood. Hence, you can point where lies the problems.

Now, with these two you have solved 90% of your problem.

The remainding 10% comes from experience which you have none. Experience into quoting such system, that is.

To make it simple, list what THEY want.

1. How many PLC
2. How many networks
3. What info will travel, READs and WRITEs
4. How to present the info (Database?, simple text file?)
5. How critical is the info. Can it be loss? Even for a few seconds? Miutes? Hours?
6. What hardware is available (on the PC side... VERY IMPORTANT, NEVER let them mess with this)
7. How fast do you need to implement this

Keeping these types of system seemingly complicated is just the Coders way to job security

Remember the first time you where left all alone with a PC that gave you the blue screen of death. And the guys that sowed you how complicated it was and how good they where. I guess today you'd have another version for this. Its called bull-starstarstarstarstar.

Seperated your problem into sections.

Do them one by one with excellent structure and all will be OK.

As for the quote, the Hardware cost x 2 does not apply here.

Will they give you the order if you quote them 40 hours per PLC? Then thats the price.

If not, what is the budget?

How much money would you pay for schooling on such systems IF you where garantied to have this project when you finish school.? Could that be the amount you will invest over-and-above your quote IF you bust your time estimate?

 

[darrenj]

Well it’s certainly been a while for this thread!



As usual the big cheese was in a major rush to get numbers...Then completely lost interest in the project...Till now...now it’s when can you get this done!..(I think it also has to do with the fact that there electrician has quit and they are paying me or one of my guys to be there on a full time basis so the cost of the project for him has become $0.00) The lost job I am not concerned about...This option gives me time to learn and improve.



Now I am hoping GIT and Pierre’s offer to help still stands!



First I will give you a quick rundown of what the application is



The machines are carton filling machines. Every so often the operator is supposed to pull a carton off the line and weigh it. If the weight is out of spec then they adjust the fill. If it is too far out of spec the product from the last weigh is pulled from the cooler and then random tested to see when the weight dropped. Once the weight is verified the operator writes the line number, product tested, and the weight down. At the end of the shift the results are handed in and someone enters the numbers into a spreadsheet.



They are supposed to do this every 20 mins or so.



HOWEVER! Reality is more like an hour



So to answer a few questions from Pierre



If the info “gets lost” on its way from the plc to the database...it’s not a huge deal

They are looking for product name, time of test, and weight

They are not willing to buy any additional hardware at this time

The full blown SCADA system is on the middle burner at the moment! (Better than the back burner!)

The info will just be read. No writes will be required (But heck if I could learn that I wouldn’t say no)

There are 3 networks. All stand alone at the moment but could be linked together fairly easy

They would like the info in some kind of database (I use the term Database loosely! imported into an Excel spread sheet would be perfect)

PC Hardware available would be pretty much anything I need within reason

PLC Hardware available is 1 Control logix processor, 2 Compact logix processors all with Ethernet and 3 PV+1000 screens (1 on each machine)

This setup will be run on its own network. IT will not be allowed to touch it.





My quick and dirty thoughts are as follows

1. Every x amount of cartons run through the machine the in feeds shut down and a message pops up on the PV. “Check product weight” the OK button takes you to a screen where you select the product being run this screen also tells you the target weight

2. The operator takes the weight and enters it on the PV

3. When the operator enters the info and hits send the info is sent to the excel file

4. The operator then restarts the in feeds and everything proceeds as normal till the next weigh in



These are just my first thoughts.



Thanks