To start with, I can confirm that demand in MI for controls engineers is way above the supply, and this is doubly true of engineers with Siemens experience. I think many experienced people left/retired/moved on when the local automotive market had a couple bad years. Now business is booming, and everyone is trying to fill positions that had been laid off 5 years ago.
I think a lot of the rest of the issues discussed are related to a disconnect in understanding regarding degrees. Most companies look to degrees as a replacement for job training, and that is completely different from the colleges intention. I'm not saying that one side is right or wrong, but anyone looking at someone with a just 4 year degree and expecting that new employee to start out fully competent is not going to be satisfied.
My mechanical engineering degree prepared me to do a lot of things. It taught me a whole lot of theory, and included almost no practice applying that theory to real life. Fluid dynamics taught me how to model and design a pump system, but it didn't teach me about different kinds of pumps, and why I would use one over another. Thermodynamics taught me how to calculate how much cooling a building needs for a given heat load, but not how to install an Air Conditioner. My machining course taught me how to calculate the stress on a tool in a mill or a lathe, but only covered the barest basics of G-code. The engineering degree taught me how to use math as a design tool. The degree gave me the background, and expected that if I needed to apply it later, I would A) have a senior engineer at first to guide me and B) be smart enough to figure it out.
It also assumed, C) I would have a technician on hand to actually get his hands dirty for me. I empathize with Jeff Kiper's EE that thought the motor start stop circuit was the electricians job. That's how, in college, things are broken down. And, in most industries, they follow the same rule. A civil engineer designs a bridge, but he does not build it. A mechanical engineer models the airflow over a car, but does not fabricate anything except models. A controls engineer who doesn't get his hands dirty, on the other hand, is a joke.
Someone else in this thread made the observation that it is hard to find an Automation Engineering degree, and that is true to an extent. The reason is that a lot of the skills needed, at least at the university I went to, are part of the Engineering Technology curriculum. Engineering degrees were all about using math and theory to design things. The Technology degrees were about applying tools that other people have created. Unfortunately, the program was smaller because it had a stigma as a lesser degree for dumber people. That stigma, and the stigma sometimes associated with a trade school vs a 4 year degree, really prevent employers from hiring the employees they want.
I think it would be wrong to say that people with 4 year engineering degrees are smarter, but I do find that most smart people who want to do something techy are currently afraid to get any degree other than a 4 year engineering degree. It is more of a rite of passage in many cases than a helpful tool. They get the degree because it is a required checkbox on job applications, and it rarely occurred to them that another path might be equally valid. The best controls "engineer" I've worked with had a history degree, and he had quite a struggle to get some people to respect him because of that.
I really think that automation and IT have a lot in common. Many IT professionals get a CS degree, and there is an uproar in that industry that CS degree programs need to change their focus. In reality, companies need to recruit from trade and technology programs.
Without a doubt, our industry does need some engineers. Many process automation users like oil refiners have complex system and control models that they constantly verify and refine. On this forum, I've seen Peter Nachtwey (sorry if I botched the spelling, I'm writing this rant on a mobile device) dive into motion equations of kinematics, and it sounds like he designs motion controllers. Without him and his peers, we wouldn't have relatively easy to control robots, CNC's, etc. We have engineers constantly making newer and faster Ethernet and wifi systems, making more efficient use of the existing bandwidth. Many machine builders actually need MORE engineers than they currently have, to do "proper" machine design and sizing, so that less mechanical issues are expected to be fixed in software.
But most of us are "just" technologists. We use the tools others have developed, and integrate them to do something else. We need to be smart, but it's often a different kind of smart than the math-smart engineering schools teach. We need to be able to see the bigger picture, and know a little bit about a 100 different things.
I guess the point of this long rant is that our industry, and many others, need to focus way less on traditional engineering degrees in hiring. Technology and trade backgrounds will often have more realistic expectations and experience. Really advanced math is often an unused skill set in our industry, and that's really most of what I learned in college. I've used my TI-89 only twice in the 6 years since college, and I kinda miss it.
I think a lot of the rest of the issues discussed are related to a disconnect in understanding regarding degrees. Most companies look to degrees as a replacement for job training, and that is completely different from the colleges intention. I'm not saying that one side is right or wrong, but anyone looking at someone with a just 4 year degree and expecting that new employee to start out fully competent is not going to be satisfied.
My mechanical engineering degree prepared me to do a lot of things. It taught me a whole lot of theory, and included almost no practice applying that theory to real life. Fluid dynamics taught me how to model and design a pump system, but it didn't teach me about different kinds of pumps, and why I would use one over another. Thermodynamics taught me how to calculate how much cooling a building needs for a given heat load, but not how to install an Air Conditioner. My machining course taught me how to calculate the stress on a tool in a mill or a lathe, but only covered the barest basics of G-code. The engineering degree taught me how to use math as a design tool. The degree gave me the background, and expected that if I needed to apply it later, I would A) have a senior engineer at first to guide me and B) be smart enough to figure it out.
It also assumed, C) I would have a technician on hand to actually get his hands dirty for me. I empathize with Jeff Kiper's EE that thought the motor start stop circuit was the electricians job. That's how, in college, things are broken down. And, in most industries, they follow the same rule. A civil engineer designs a bridge, but he does not build it. A mechanical engineer models the airflow over a car, but does not fabricate anything except models. A controls engineer who doesn't get his hands dirty, on the other hand, is a joke.
Someone else in this thread made the observation that it is hard to find an Automation Engineering degree, and that is true to an extent. The reason is that a lot of the skills needed, at least at the university I went to, are part of the Engineering Technology curriculum. Engineering degrees were all about using math and theory to design things. The Technology degrees were about applying tools that other people have created. Unfortunately, the program was smaller because it had a stigma as a lesser degree for dumber people. That stigma, and the stigma sometimes associated with a trade school vs a 4 year degree, really prevent employers from hiring the employees they want.
I think it would be wrong to say that people with 4 year engineering degrees are smarter, but I do find that most smart people who want to do something techy are currently afraid to get any degree other than a 4 year engineering degree. It is more of a rite of passage in many cases than a helpful tool. They get the degree because it is a required checkbox on job applications, and it rarely occurred to them that another path might be equally valid. The best controls "engineer" I've worked with had a history degree, and he had quite a struggle to get some people to respect him because of that.
I really think that automation and IT have a lot in common. Many IT professionals get a CS degree, and there is an uproar in that industry that CS degree programs need to change their focus. In reality, companies need to recruit from trade and technology programs.
Without a doubt, our industry does need some engineers. Many process automation users like oil refiners have complex system and control models that they constantly verify and refine. On this forum, I've seen Peter Nachtwey (sorry if I botched the spelling, I'm writing this rant on a mobile device) dive into motion equations of kinematics, and it sounds like he designs motion controllers. Without him and his peers, we wouldn't have relatively easy to control robots, CNC's, etc. We have engineers constantly making newer and faster Ethernet and wifi systems, making more efficient use of the existing bandwidth. Many machine builders actually need MORE engineers than they currently have, to do "proper" machine design and sizing, so that less mechanical issues are expected to be fixed in software.
But most of us are "just" technologists. We use the tools others have developed, and integrate them to do something else. We need to be smart, but it's often a different kind of smart than the math-smart engineering schools teach. We need to be able to see the bigger picture, and know a little bit about a 100 different things.
I guess the point of this long rant is that our industry, and many others, need to focus way less on traditional engineering degrees in hiring. Technology and trade backgrounds will often have more realistic expectations and experience. Really advanced math is often an unused skill set in our industry, and that's really most of what I learned in college. I've used my TI-89 only twice in the 6 years since college, and I kinda miss it.
