Is the time right for a commercial PLC Programming Tool that runs on linux?

[AustralIan]

With Windows 7 End of Extended Support being just under 3 years away (Jan 2020), is the time right for someone like Inductive Automation/Beckhoff/Codesys to create a cross platform PLC Programming Tool?

I know all the young programmers use linux these days, and the forced updates of Windows 10 means that you may have difficulty supporting old hardware if a windows 10 update breaks your programming environment.

Or have I missed the boat and is there already a major player with a linux supported programming environment?

Or have we all missed the boat, and need to embrace IoT/IEC 61499 programming paradigms?

 

[CaspianSage]

With Windows 7 End of Extended Support being just under 3 years away (Jan 2020), is the time right for someone like Inductive Automation/Beckhoff/Codesys to create a cross platform PLC Programming Tool?

I know all the young programmers use linux these days, and the forced updates of Windows 10 means that you may have difficulty supporting old hardware if a windows 10 update breaks your programming environment.

Or have I missed the boat and is there already a major player with a linux supported programming environment?

Or have we all missed the boat, and need to embrace IoT/IEC 61499 programming paradigms?

In my view, there is a whole host of engineering applications that should have been ported to Linux a long time ago. The only thing that has held us back switching to all Linux machines is that Rockwell Software, AutoDesk and a few others have not ported their programs over. Fat chance they ever will unless Linux becomes as easy for the end user as windows is.

For our strictly Office applications we already switched to Linux machines since office suites such as open office has finally matured and is compatible enough with MS Office to meet our needs.

Our network servers are all Novell. Still running Netware on 2 servers and Novell EnterPrise server which is SUSSE on another.

-

 

[Toine]

With Windows 7 End of Extended Support being just under 3 years away (Jan 2020), is the time right for someone like Inductive Automation/Beckhoff/Codesys to create a cross platform PLC Programming Tool?

There are times when I would not mind at all, e.g. when shortly after purchasing my new Win 7 work laptop one of the Windows updates f-ed up the built-in license checks and the new laptop started telling me it had a fake windows install. Not long after that it said there were updates but it did not download/install them. Bloody annoying, and it most certainly was not a fake Windows.

I believe the current CoDeSys version is based on Visual Studio though. That would need a complete rewrite to offer a Linux version.

 

[AustralIan]

For a second I thought that Visual Studio Code, which runs on Linux, and Mono, which runs .NET on Linux, would sort that out. but I believe all the IDE stuff for Codedys 3 is built for the Windows version. Doesn't necessarily rule them out, but I guess they are probably more Microsoft than anyone now.

 

[AustralIan]

Well done on the Linux/OpenOffice move, CaspianSage.

 

[mendonsy]

This would certainly be an appropriate time to consider Linux, but I suspect that the vendors aren't going to jump ship with Micro$oft at least until the Linux installed base becomes larger. Fortunately I am in the process of working my way into retirement so the Win7 machines that I currently have will last as long as I will need them.

 

[Epy]

+99 to all pro-Linux sentiments. As a computer programmer, when you look at it, everyone should be using cross-platform libraries for their commercial software anyway (making it easy to run your application on Win, OSX, Linux, etc)...it's much less of a pain to use a cross-platform GUI, networking, etc. library than to deal with the painful changes M$ makes in its API in between Windows versions.

I'd like to see things go a step further than simply bringing existing PLC programming applications to Linux, would like low-level access to PLCs similar to how you can with hobbyist boards. I'd like to be able to load FreeRTOS or otherwise directly into the PLC and handle communications and everything myself. Most will say that we have ladder logic and IEC languages so that everyone can play nice with each other, but I work for an OEM and am thinking along the lines of very custom programming for my application.

 

[jvdcande]

+99 to all pro-Linux sentiments.

Same here.

I'd like to see things go a step further than simply bringing existing PLC programming applications to Linux, would like low-level access to PLCs similar to how you can with hobbyist boards. I'd like to be able to load FreeRTOS or otherwise directly into the PLC and handle communications and everything myself.

This might be tricky, especially when it comes to liability issues. Nowadays, liability for hardware or firmware based problems is laid in the manufacturer's basket, only the user program is the responsibility of the programmer. In my view, it would take a lot to consider before going the distance you propose.

 

[BobB]

Won't happen! Too much money invested elsewhere.

 

[AustralIan]

So Epy would like an IDE and RTOS/runtime and also hardware that was a redhat type business model.

The Inductive Automation model (closed source but cross platform) makes it easier to ensure licence fees are paid.

I wonder if the AdvancedHMI model would work, where you open source and give it away, then sell yourself as the premier system integrator/support.

I think the IA model will be best to start with, and could possibly shift to a redhat model once it has better market adoption. At least, that's what your marketing could say you want it to do .

Who would be the initial target market? OEMs? Industries with heavy audit requirements? Security concious industries like critical national infrastructure or defense?

 

[Mark-]

Won't happen! Too much money invested elsewhere.

Right, assuming the above market share is true. You have $1 million to invest to update/create your software/hardware offering. What market are you going to target?

 

[AustralIan]

It looks like if you were to create a serious Linux offering, you would be the only one operating in that 2% slice..

 

[Mark-]

It looks like if you were to create a serious Linux offering, you would be the only one operating in that 2% slice..

Right and of the 2% slice you are targeting an even smaller slice of folks that are in the PLC/Automation market.

ROI is so low, putting your $1 million in a CD would be better/safer.

 

[Epy]

View attachment 43311

Right, assuming the above market share is true. You have $1 million to invest to update/create your software/hardware offering. What market are you going to target?

All of the above, using cross-platform libraries/frameworks. wxWidgets for example, offers all listed here: http://www.wxwidgets.org/about/ with the option to statically link it to your application at no cost and no obligation to publish your own source code.

 

[Saffa]

Right and of the 2% slice you are targeting an even smaller slice of folks that are in the PLC/Automation market.

ROI is so low, putting your $1 million in a CD would be better/safer.

This becomes a case of chicken and egg though. If there's no automation software that runs on Linux then of course I am not going to use it.

But if it was available then I certainly would.