OT: Poll : Economic situation

[[email protected]]

We should put a PLC in charge. That way we could really tell it what to do.

 

[milldrone]

We should put a PLC in charge. That way we could really tell it what to do.

If we did this, it would do as told not what we wanted it to do.

 

[RussB]

I agree.

I have deceided to take a poll and see what everyone else thinks. Here where I work we have been debating the current economic issues and while we know no one in Washington would listen these are ideas that we think would at least help the problems as they are.

1. Either lower taxes or impose a uniform tax where everyone pays the exact same amount. Say something like 3 percent.

2. Go back and reassess all homes and property at a lower rate. This would make it more affordable to all and lower the taxes paid on the home.

3. Make severe and stiff penaties against companies that hire the illegals. Make it more lucrative to hire natural born or naturalized citizens.

4. Dont allow illegals to draw off of the taxes paid by natural born and naturalized citizens.

The way we look at it is most people wont or cant take the jobs that the illegals do because they could not afford to live on that pay. Mainly because of overtaxed and the high interest rates and all that so if we made things more fair it might just work.

What do you all think? Would something like this work. I realize there are probably other ideas and hey by all means post away. Have a great day and a wonderful holiday season.

 

[STEVEBOT]

You have no clue, the oil companies pay billions in taxes also. I have no problem letting them make a profit. You pick on the oil and utility companies but there are other industries that make way more than them. Keep the government out of private business and we would be much better off.

Okay maybe picking on just a few sectors is not the correct way about it but they are examples and although they pay biliions in taxes they still make as many billions in profit.I do not deny them the right to make profit it is just the amount of profit that is made is hard to accept, and that is a view I have held before any economic crisis hit. As to keep government out of private business, had governments looked and learnt how business should be run and paid the right people to do it then it would have stood a chance.
What about all the directors of failed companies, or companies taht start to fail who walk away with big Golden handshakes and tied up pensions, if we fail would we get that.

 

[TimWilborne]

Okay maybe picking on just a few sectors is not the correct way about it but they are examples and although they pay biliions in taxes they still make as many billions in profit.I do not deny them the right to make profit it is just the amount of profit that is made is hard to accept, and that is a view I have held before any economic crisis hit.

The average profit of energy companies is 9.7%. I hardly call that a windfall profit. Google's profit is around 25%.

This is no different than the tax argument in this thread. It is based more on how easy it is to pick on a particular industry than it is on actual facts.

 

[surferb]

I don't understand why people have a problem with companies profiting. Is that not what drives the economy? Corporate fraud and bailouts are an entirely different matter...

Okay maybe picking on just a few sectors is not the correct way about it but they are examples and although they pay biliions in taxes they still make as many billions in profit.I do not deny them the right to make profit it is just the amount of profit that is made is hard to accept, and that is a view I have held before any economic crisis hit. As to keep government out of private business, had governments looked and learnt how business should be run and paid the right people to do it then it would have stood a chance.
What about all the directors of failed companies, or companies taht start to fail who walk away with big Golden handshakes and tied up pensions, if we fail would we get that.

 

[Derek]

I don't understand why people have a problem with companies profiting. Is that not what drives the economy? Corporate fraud and bailouts are an entirely different matter...

I would add ethics to this list.
Admittedly this going to be subjective.
Just because it may be borderline legal
does not make it right.

 

[Tripper]

Blame the banks.
Blame the politicians that let the banks make bad loans.
Blame those that voted for the politicians.
Blame those that defaulted on their loans.
I blame the 50+% of you.

Its alot simpler down here...

We just blame the Yanks!!

 

[Stationmaster]

The average profit of energy companies is 9.7%. I hardly call that a windfall profit. Google's profit is around 25%.

This is no different than the tax argument in this thread. It is based more on how easy it is to pick on a particular industry than it is on actual facts.

Yeah.... but we can STOP using Google if we have a bad month, and many of the other unregulated goods and services. We can't (at least in the SHORT term) STOP using gas, paying taxes, or making the mortgage payment to keep a roof over our families' heads.

I have no problem with companies making a (legal and ethical) profit, that's certainly MY goal every day, week, month, and year. But the things we have no control over, the things we HAVE to have, the monies that are taken from us forcibly and spent on things we don't approve of....... those are the things we lament the loudest.

The Iraqi war comes to mind. I've heard all sorts of stories about how much it has cost and is costing the taxpayers, but I've never heard how it would be paid for. Does it seem interesting to anyone ELSE that the first, knee-jerk economic bailout proposal amount was almost EXACTLY the same amount that has been spent on the war in Iraq? It's almost as if our government KNEW we were taking money out of our economy that we couldn't really afford, so when the spit hit the fan, they were all ready with a magic number.

And as far as Fannie May and Freddie Mac go, I blame them (and not just because they are big easy targets) for making hundreds of thousands, maybe MILLIONS, of home loans that were "TOO EASY" to be true, to wide eyed people who were told they COULD afford that great big new house, when they really probably couldn't. I blame THAT practice for artificially driving up the prices of real estate. If they were told they could get a loan on the house, then the house must be WORTH the asking price. So house prices skyrocketed. Even with the inflated prices, the unrealistic loans continued to flow. Vicious cycle.

NOW that the "supply and demand" effect has brought everything back into perspective, the government is going to take my tax money and try to prop those artificially inflated prices back UP!

This lending practice didn't have a specific law against it, so it was technically legal. The goal in big business seems to be to find some scheme, no matter how unethical, that's not 'technically' illegal, and exploit it 'til somebody gets hurt and they DO make a law against it. The housing loan debacle is but ONE example, there have been and will be others.

Stationmaster

(PS. No, I'm not behind in any of my loan payments.)

 

[TimWilborne]

Yeah.... but we can STOP using Google if we have a bad month, and many of the other unregulated goods and services. We can't (at least in the SHORT term) STOP using gas, paying taxes, or making the mortgage payment to keep a roof over our families' heads.

I have no problem with companies making a (legal and ethical) profit, that's certainly MY goal every day, week, month, and year. But the things we have no control over, the things we HAVE to have, the monies that are taken from us forcibly and spent on things we don't approve of....... those are the things we lament the loudest.

My point was that the energy sector doesn't make these huge profits that everyone claims, many industries make larger profits. So are you saying that 9.7% a huge profit?

Actually, oil consumption, at least in the US, did drop when oil prices went up. Now whether it was because of supply and demand or because of the recession...that's more of a discussion than we probably need to have in a control forum.

If your income goes down, your tax burden goes down. If you don't purchase as many goods, then you pay less sales tax. So I would say yes, if you've fallen upon hard times, you can cut the taxes you pay in the short term. Taxes are just another one that is easy to complain about.

Your right about the mortgage payment, when you've fallen upon hard times, it's tough to shrink it. I've argued who's to blame before with Peter, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle of our opinions. The banks didn't do their due diligence on the loans, but the people who took the loans knew they were stretching their budgets. I was nearly broke back in 2001 but never gave up and pulled out. That may be partially why I have a problem giving sympathy to those who are simply walking away without a fight.

(PS. No, I'm not behind in any of my loan payments.)

My loan payments are up to date and I owe less on it than most people own on their cars. I may not have as much as others, but everything else I have I worked, saved, and paid cash for

 

[Stationmaster]

My point was that the energy sector doesn't make these huge profits that everyone claims, many industries make larger profits. So are you saying that 9.7% a huge profit?

Not at all. I actually was sort of agreeing with those who say there are OTHER reasons why we choose certain topics to complain about. I was saying that the ones we have little or no discretionary control over, are the ones that gripe us the most.

While oil consumption went down nationwide, I still have to drive MY service truck to each job to earn my income. I PERSONALLY don't have much choice. And since I don't have much choice, yes, I complain when it costs me $60.00 to fill my 15 gallon tank (Ranger).

I'm sure there is proof to back up your claim that oil companies make only 9% profit, but I could have SWORN I heard on the news where Exxon turned in the highest profit EVER by a US company last quarter.

It doesn't matter. I don't think high gas prices caused this mess at all. I was trying to convey that message while I was ranting about the mortgage situation.

I agree that savvy people should be able to resist that overpriced home. But it's obvious they were led down the path by the realtors and bankers.

Not that many years ago, we the consumers, actually looked to the banks to determine what would work and what wouldn't work. We found a house to buy, filled out the loan request complete with proof of income, and the bank either approved or DISapproved the whole deal. When the bankers started writing everything that came across their desks, that set of "checks and balances" was lost. What's MORE, consumers may have thought that those checks and balances were still in place and relied on them to their detriment.

And then there are the stories about loans that were made to people with NO KNOWN ABILITY TO PAY!! I'm not making this up. The lenders had a nickname for them: NINJNA loans. It's an acronym for "no income, no job, no assets". THOSE loans were almost IMPOSSIBLE to resist. People who had nothing were being ushered into new houses....... why WOULDN'T they?

I wasn't taking issue with your observations so much as making observations of my own. I only quoted YOUR post because it contained observations that triggered my observation: that SOME of the items we complain about are selected mostly because we can't do without them.

My mention of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae was to emphasize my disagreement with the poster who said that "we only blame them because they are easy targets". In MY humble opinion, they are truly culpable.

Stationmaster

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

Democrats protecting Fan

Did you vote for these people protecting Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&NR=1

What I like about youtube is that you can see the people incriminate themselves. Why are they still in office?

 

[SMOKE]

Exxon Mobil: Biggest profit in history

The largest U.S. oil company surges past analysts' estimates with a posted net income of $14.83 billion and sets a national record for quarterly profit.

But I really wish I was a drug CEO.

 

[SMOKE]

Thanks for the links Peter. Make me scared for the next 4 years.

 

[JeffKiper]

I am current with the only loan that my wife and myself have (house).

Has anyone seen the adds running from the big 3 that show the town with all the lights on and then the lights out? It did say that if the big 3 fall the US economy will fall. That was trying to tell us that the only way to bail out the economy is to bail out them.They asked us to call our local government and tell them support the bailout.

Do we let them fall, or help them out? Is this like your child calling and saying dad I am in trouble I need you to bail me out of jail. Do you bail him out or let him set there? Some parents say you have to get them out and other say let them get themselves out.