Rumor about PLCs.net expansion - Is it true?

[gbradley]

I'm in process of creating the online help files now...

I assume the Help files will have a link Here

Nice Work!

:site:

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

Hint, hint.

PID is also not included. Doubt it will be... until someone comes up with a good idea to show it working. The program is basically an editor AND emulator(to translate that... you create a program and then watch the same program run.) You can switch on/off inputs and watch the outputs turn on/off. You can also work with memory locations and monitor them.

I can help with the PID and systems simulation. I would need to know how flexible you would want to make the plant simulations and what kind of systems you would want to simulate for PID control.

It's 'purposely' not based on A-B, AD, XYZ, etc. It's a hybrid. If you can program one, you can program 99% of them all. (just my opinion, of course). [

/QUOTE]

You should have simulated the neutral IEC 61131-3. There is plenty of documentation for PLC Open. Now you have to document your version of ladder. L

 

[Phil Melore]

Hi Peter,

I meant that within ladder logic, watching it 'run' wouldn't be to intuitive. All you'd see were memory values changing. Simulating via a pictorial diagram is something for rev 3 or 4 or...

The help files are mainly for how to use the program so I have to create them anyway regardless of programming standard. It's time consuming... but hopefully worth the effort.

Enjoy,

 

[leitmotif]

Phil
regarding your statement
I meant that within ladder logic, watching it 'run' wouldn't be to intuitive. All you'd see were memory values changing. Simulating via a pictorial diagram is something for rev 3 or 4 or...

When I was in process of learning on AB I wanted to see how the program operated either by what changed in teh ladder or in the case of sequencesrs and other "table driven" (?) commands how the data in the table changed.

SO I think that being able to see this stuff change in a slowed down version is important ESPECIALLY if you can see this stuff change as the machine changes (which of course you would have to simulate)

Dan Bentler

 

[Phil Melore]

Hi Dan,

There will be a memory area you can watch in 'realtime' so you can see the changes as the program runs. (ie. you can see the results of a MOV or XOR or = or tons more instructions that work with the registers in the simulator)

I will also take your advice and develop a sequencer instruction whereby you can see the results in the ladder and/or memory. Look for it in rev 2.

The toolbar has run buttons for single scan or continuous scan. So you can see the effects EACH scan has on the program. I also thought slowing things down was important to understand how things work (memory changes, one shots, etc).

All suggestions are welcomed, as always.

Enjoy,

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

Just curious.

Phil, what are you using to write the simulator? Java or some sort of script? I would think script would be too slow. If I remember right from a couple of Christmases ago, you like Macromedia Flash.

 

[leitmotif]

Hi Dan,

There will be a memory area you can watch in 'realtime' so you can see the changes as the program runs. (ie. you can see the results of a MOV or XOR or = or tons more instructions that work with the registers in the simulator)

I will also take your advice and develop a sequencer instruction whereby you can see the results in the ladder and/or memory. Look for it in rev 2.
REPLY Keep it fairly simple either a stop lite or basic home washer that the average guy can comprehend.

The toolbar has run buttons for single scan or continuous scan. So you can see the effects EACH scan has on the program. I also thought slowing things down was important to understand how things work (memory changes, one shots, etc).
REPLY this is SUPER IMPORTANT to those learning. Had hard time seeing my mistake when it went by me at speed of lite.
For "multiple table" based ie sequencer
IF all tables can be shown at same time on same screen then the changes are easier to see and in my case the mistakes easier to find.

MISSION IMPOSSIBLE IF you can put in error trapping for my most comon mitake ie typos it would put me in 17th heaven
eg INPUT No Eye Zero 3 (Io3) typed as One "O"3 (I generally got the number OK but them (%* zero vs "O) dorove me nuts.

All suggestions are welcomed, as always.
REPLY You got em.

Dan Bentler

 

[Phil Melore]

Good call Peter. Yes, it's 'mostly' a Flash program. The help motion/sound files will also be Flash.

 

[Phil Melore]

Dan,
Currently you can enter 'eye oh' instead of 'eye zero' and such. 'Eye zero' will not turn on if 'eye oh' is entered. I can see the troubleshooting headache too...

I'm sure they'll be many more bugs like that to fix comes launch day (although I hope not )
Thanks,

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

Still curious.

Good call Peter. Yes, it's 'mostly' a Flash program. The help motion/sound files will also be Flash.

Phil, I am assuming by flash you mean flash and active script. What else? I have been thinking about writing a simulator for hydraulic systems for a long time. It would be very math intensive because it would be solving a system on non-linear differential equations using Runge Kutta. Is the MacroMedia Flash up to that?

I though that an Java applet would be the best option. If not, why? Pierre Vandecandelaere's Karaugh Map Java applet was inspirational. Java has debugging capabilities. Why Flash?

 

[Eric Nelson]

I guess you're pretty confident with the launch date, Phil?...



-Eric

 

[Phil Melore]

Hi Peter,

Flash has limitations... lots of them. Probably can't do what you want regarding high order math. Java is probably better.

In addition to flash/actionscript the simulator also uses a MYSQL database and php.

Enjoy,

 

[Phil Melore]

I guess you're pretty confident with the launch date, Phil?...

Extremely.

I assume you're referring to the countdown timer I added above. It's purpose is twofold.
1- To reinforce the launch date.
2- To make sure people can see it as it requires a 'modern' version of flash player. If you can't see that or get download messages, the same will happen for the simulator.

I guess you can say I'm 'testing the waters'.

Enjoy,

 

[leitmotif]

Phil

For the first time that #)&(@)^ "thingy" for loading macromedia flash popped up. I really don't want to do that. In fact life seems to be easier for me if I keep the software to a minimum. If you use flash will we be required to download it?

I grant you there is a need to stay with the times and you cannot write this program for a person stuck with DOS. On the other hand some cannot afford the latest and greatest or dont want it (at least until it has been debugged for two years by someone else).

I guess I am just a technical guy - gimme the data and keep the flashy graphics to an absolute minimum.

Dan Bentler
Dan Bentler

 

[Phil Melore]

...snip
On the other hand some cannot afford the latest and greatest or dont want it (at least until it has been debugged for two years by someone else).

Dan Bentler

Hi Dan,
Hence my purpose #2 above.

Flash is pre-installed on IE but depending upon the version of IE you're using will determine the version of Flash you have. Firefox doesn't 'come with' flash. If you're getting the download message, then you have it already but it's an older version. It's free to get the latest version.

The simulator requires version 7 of the flashplayer. I believe the latest is version 8.

If you see the countdown timer at the top of the forum pages
or the pre-release test cartoon head on the plcs.net homepage you are set. If not, you need to download/update to the latest.

Sorry, but that's the cost to having an online program. If it were downloadable it would have to be installed on your computer just like any other computer program.

My theory was that many people won't install a program without knowing what will happen. However, many people know flash and would either already have it (90%+) or would know/trust it.

For your reference, it's free and has been around for far more than 2 years. It is one of(or perhaps THE) the most popular add-on for browsers. I'm not trying to sell flash to you, just making a point.

But again, it's a personal choice...

Enjoy,