Should there be a minimum internaltional standard for PLC programmers?

And who taught us?
We figured this stuff out by ourselves.
There were no forums like this until the late 1990s.

Lots of reading (when you could find something kind of on point), prototyping, pondering "what ifs", eureka moments that made it all worthwhile, and the money helped :), etc..

IIRC, my CompuServe ID was 76210,1344. BBS handles...shorter lived.
 
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We all started somewhere.

Easy to criticize a newby when you have 20-30 years experience.


Scaling and proportion are not newby skills; They are skills that should be understood by the time one leaves grade school.

I get not everyone is going to be an engineer, but they should at least be able to trivially figure out the tip at a restaurant.
 
And who taught us?
We figured this stuff out by ourselves.
There were no forums like this until the late 1990s.

Who taught us?

Yes it was difficult to to find answers when your facing new technology and no-one much knew anything. I was taught on relay logic and suddenly a PLC appeared. Luckily these were based on relays and the instruction sets were simple.

There was no forum's, your right, we had to figure out ourselves. The issue nowadays is not that we should be putting barriers up to stop new engineers.

Forums mean that people get used to not having to think as there's someone there to answer the simplest problem.

Young, inexperienced programmers are also being given projects beyond their level with no mentors to guide them, as they are cheap you see.
 
Scaling and proportion are not newby skills; They are skills that should be understood by the time one leaves grade school.

I get not everyone is going to be an engineer, but they should at least be able to trivially figure out the tip at a restaurant.

I remember watching Who wants to be a Millionaire, wondering how some of these clever people could answer the simplest of questions wrong, the simple answer being if you don't know, you don't know.

Where I agree we had the tools to determine how to work out mathematical solutions such as scaling etc. I don't recall doing this in school.

The forum of course is an easy way to get someone else to think for you, laziness if anything.
 
Forums mean that people get used to not having to think as there's someone there to answer the simplest problem.

Young, inexperienced programmers are also being given projects beyond their level with no mentors to guide them, as they are cheap you see.
Young inexperienced programmers are not cheap if they screw up.

I am with drbitboy on this one or he is with me. Algebra, geometry and little calculus, and physics are high school topics. There are other PLCs topics like state machines etc.

This is a minimum.

There was a thread on this forum a few years back called "learning by doing" it was started by a female programmer named Paula. The thread was almost 700 posts long and took way too long. Her application could have been done in an afternoon. 700 posts! I really doubt she would have got that much help if she was a he. That wasted a lot of people's time.

OK, so I am not much fun.
 
20 odd years ago I worked for an OEM, over that period the company employed a number of engineers, most were graduates with masters degrees.
I would say that over 60% of them were useless & never would make good programmers, there were a couple of lads strait from school who took to it like ducks to water, none of them graduates or school leavers could possibly have any experience or exposure to not only PLC's but instrumentation & all the other bits that go with all the types of plant they would be working on.
My point is, yes advanced maths (beyond basic learning skills) are required but there is a big divide between being able to put it into practice & not.
Everybody has to learn, most of this experience is gained within a working environment. Take here in the UK, being a electrician means certification in some form, industrial electricians who deal with far greater installations than what we call a house basher, however, there is a thing called part P, what a load of b%&ST, Therefore if a qualified electrician who was experienced in installing major plant for example in a power station does not require it, however, a domestic installer does, my experience of some of these so called qualified Part P electricians is to say the least dismal.
Before I married, my wife had her own house, unfortunately the fridge freezer caught fire causing extensive damage to the house, the fire investigator was adamant that it was probably a cable that fed an outside socket directly under the floorboards where the freezer was located, I argued with him due to the floorboards were well chard on the top but still firm (my estimation of his ability was poor to say the least), an inspection proved me right, the insurance company employed a building company to do the work this turned out to be over £50,000.00 although the work by the builder was ok (not to my liking & some problems which I helped the builder sort out regarding the kitchen units), anyway some months after the completion, my wife plugged in the hoover in a socket & there was a large bang but there was no burn marks on or in the socket, investigation found that the MCB in the new consumer unit had not been clamped in the finger of the MCB was behind the clamp so when tightened up it was not secure, it was just touching the back of the clamp, turned out nearly all the breakers were in the same state, further inspection of the installed electricals found that almost all of the sockets & light switches were not tight, some had even started to arc. This had been done by an approved part P electrician, tested (well i have the certificates of the tests)reported to building control as required.
Back to the point qualifications are a good thing, I have loads of them including the simple ones like lifting gear, food hygiene, the list goes on, the qualifications only mean you have done the course & are good at passing exams, putting it all into practice is another thing.
 
Required knowledge:
Basic physics.
Basic math up to calculus.
Electrical theory.
Motor theory.

My suggestion for a Curriculum:
Instrumentation.
EMC and noise reduction measures.
The basic principles of PLC.
PLC Languages, LD, ST, GRAPH.
PLC programming concepts, state machine, structuring of data.
PLC/HMI interaction - alarms, diagnostics, logging.
Current industrial fieldbusses.
Legacy industrial fieldbusses.
Drives.
Security.
Practical PLC project management (documentation, planning, version control, backups).
Electrical/pneumatical/hydraulic diagrams (even if you are not going to make any diagrams, you must be able to read them).
Machine safety (even if you are not going to be responsible for the risk assessment or check list etc. you must know how to move around and work safely on a machine).

For specific PLC:
xxx brand diagnostics.
 
Aren't they all... just a pic of a girl to get more help and it worked


Yeah, we collectively lost a chance on that one.


Automation Direct had a contest - post a photo of a panel that needs an upgrade really bad and the one that gets the most votes won a PLC package.


The winner was a photo of a broad, and Automation Direct continued to let the contest run even though it was pointed out that entry did not meet the rules of the contest and they would not invalidate that entry, or my suggestion - cancel the contest and give a prize package to all legitimate entries.


P.S. - politically correct or not there is a big difference between a lady and a broad, and I stand by statement above.
 
Maybe @PN should change his .signature from "Strawberry Fields Forever" to "Imagine."

Oh we had to go there.... there are so many that would fit Peter

I dont want to hold your hand
Dont let me down (but you do)
Yesterday (we had better PLC's)
Let it be (just not around me)
A day in the life (of Peter)
Get back (no really GET BACK)
In my life (of a mathmagician)

And my all time favorite "with a little help from my friends" at PLC Talk
 
You guys are getting off topic.
"imagine" is for woke people.
GIT's post was kind of funny, but I have two objections.
Actually the PLCs are better now. Do your remember my rants about S7-300 programming? The new Siemens PLC are much friendlier and easier to program.

Also
Yesterday ( we had to figure it out on our own )
Finally, I like the title of mathmagician or mathemagician. The later sounds better. I didn't have help from my friends. I had help/assistance from Mathcad.
 
My two centavos;

Obviously math, physics, etc are all important:

How do you teach someone to think logically and understand the big picture?
 

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