OPC and VB or WinCC Flex Runtime or sending excell CSV's... hmmm doubts...

userxyz

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Hi,

I'm still doubting about wich way to choose... hmzz

There will be a machine, with ethernet connection to an Office PC.

They want to be able to send simple Batches (see other posts of me). But they also want to see historical data...

3 possibillities that I can think of (each one has locally a panel too..


1. WinCC flexible runtime on the office pc..., to send recipes and view historical data...

questions that I'm asking myself are: price of a runtime license... opc server onboard ?


2. Sending CSV file's for the recipes and using the webserver from the panel. Browsing to the panel too see historical data.

questions that I'm asking myself are: handy to use ?

3. OPC and VB, historical data in DB's, vieuwing is done with VB. This is no problem. Sending a recipe is no problem. Questions that I'm asking myself: price of an OPC ethernet license ?


Wich choice could be the best...
 
Combo said:
1. WinCC flexible runtime on the office pc..., to send recipes and view historical data...
questions that I'm asking myself are: price of a runtime license... opc server onboard ?
Click to expand...
WinCC Flex PC RT 128 tags: Approx 400 Euro.
WinCC Flex PC RT 512 tags: Approx 1500 Euro.
Recipes + archives option: Approx 400 Euro.
OPC Server, Softnet Ethernet Lean is included in the RT license.

Combo said:
2. Sending CSV file's for the recipes and using the webserver from the panel. Browsing to the panel too see historical data.
questions that I'm asking myself are: handy to use ?
Click to expand...
I think it is a cludge.
Edit: Previously you considered to let the panel log data via scripts to a remote PC. Or even via native logging to a remote PC. This "Browsing to the panel too see historical data" is something new. I dont like the idea.

Combo said:
3. OPC and VB, historical data in DB's, vieuwing is done with VB. This is no problem. Sending a recipe is no problem. Questions that I'm asking myself: price of an OPC ethernet license ?
Click to expand...
Softnet ethernet lean costs approximately 300 Euro.
 
Last edited:
:)

300 euro todo it with Visual basic... is that correct ?

So buying Simatic Net it's ethernet driver, 300 euros, and I can begin ... ? Great, this will be the choice to make then I think...


On webpages of panels, what can you put there, anything you want, any tag you want... right ?

Recipes + archives option: Approx 400 Euro.... in panels, this is included, on PC runtime 400 euros ?? This is so damn rip-off, don't you think ?




JesperMP said:
WinCC Flex PC RT 128 tags: Approx 400 Euro.
WinCC Flex PC RT 512 tags: Approx 1500 Euro.
Recipes + archives option: Approx 400 Euro.
OPC Server, Softnet Ethernet Lean is included in the RT license.

I think it is a cludge.
Edit: Previously you considered to let the panel log data via scripts to a remote PC. Or even via native logging to a remote PC. This "Browsing to the panel too see historical data" is something new. I dont like the idea.

Softnet ethernet lean costs approximately 300 Euro.
Click to expand...
 
3 possibillities, which 2 do you mean ?
Click to expand...
Sorry bad joke.

On webpages of panels, what can you put there, anything you want, any tag you want... right ?
Click to expand...
I'm using PC Runtime and you can so I assume you can with the panels. You just put in the tag name in the HTML just like you would a tag in a script.

One thing I would add. The pre made web pages have a way to upload/download recipe data. With Runtime I have had some problems with this. You can upload without any problem but downloading is a little different. I have to restart RT to get the data back into the recipe. I don't know how this works on the panel.
 
Combo said:
300 euro todo it with Visual basic... is that correct ?
Click to expand...
That is for the OPC server. Then you have to make the OPC programming in VB. If you need a "wrapper" you have to factor that in.

Combo said:
On webpages of panels, what can you put there, anything you want, any tag you want... right ?
Click to expand...
If you are thinking about smartaccess, then this means that the panel is completely controlled from remote, "taken over" so to speak. You do not configure webpages as such. I think it is not what you want.

Combo said:
Recipes + archives option: Approx 400 Euro.... in panels, this is included, on PC runtime 400 euros ?? This is so damn rip-off, don't you think ?
Click to expand...
Not really. WinCC Flex RT is very cheap actually. With achives + recipes it is still pretty inexpensive when compared to other full fledged SCADA packages. Of course it is more a SCDA Lite than a full SCADA.
 
CharlesM said:
I'm using PC Runtime and you can so I assume you can with the panels. You just put in the tag name in the HTML just like you would a tag in a script.
Click to expand...
What is this ?
Is it Script programming in WinCC Flex ?
Or access to the tags in WinCC Flex RT from a Web server ?
Or something else ?
 
What is this ?
Is it Script programming in WinCC Flex ?
Or access to the tags in WinCC Flex RT from a Web server ?
Or something else ?
Click to expand...
When you get the SmartService option it puts a web server on the PC. You can edit these HTML pages and display values from smart tags just like you do in a script.

I am sure you can do the same thing with panels. I think I posted some screen shots when we talked about this before. If you can't find them I can post again with a sample of the HTML.
 
okay

Okay,

but, what I need is a beautiful page (vb, excell, html) where they can pre-make there recipes and batch them with a number of products of that recipe.

can you download recipes on that webpage in an very easy way ? Can you write to tags on that page ?




CharlesM said:
When you get the SmartService option it puts a web server on the PC. You can edit these HTML pages and display values from smart tags just like you do in a script.

I am sure you can do the same thing with panels. I think I posted some screen shots when we talked about this before. If you can't find them I can post again with a sample of the HTML.
Click to expand...
 
okay

okay,

but for what I need VB and OPC would fit the best ?

What I wanna write is a VB application where they can make recipes in.

When a recipe is made, they can make batches with them and send them to the machine, more then one is possible, a batch list is possible.

Historical alarms should be possible too, I think VB can do the job too



I think this is the best solution for a customer




JesperMP said:
That is for the OPC server. Then you have to make the OPC programming in VB. If you need a "wrapper" you have to factor that in.

If you are thinking about smartaccess, then this means that the panel is completely controlled from remote, "taken over" so to speak. You do not configure webpages as such. I think it is not what you want.

Not really. WinCC Flex RT is very cheap actually. With achives + recipes it is still pretty inexpensive when compared to other full fledged SCADA packages. Of course it is more a SCDA Lite than a full SCADA.
Click to expand...
 
Combo.

If this is a one-off project, then I think that a standard WinCC Flex PC RT + Archives and Recipes is a no-brainer. You already use WinCC Flex so you can implement it in a very short time for an investment of 800 Euro.

If this is decision for the long run, and you count on reusing the effort invested on many other projects, then maybe a do-it-yourself approach will be OK. I would not do it for a single project.
In my own company we have a dedicated programmer to make some of our HMI soultions for standardised machines, and he is fully booked with 90% maintenance work, and maybe 10% "new development". The problem is not making the 1st project. The problem is maintaining the software over a very long time. You have to think about what happens when new Windows versions are released (prepare for Windows 7, and maybe "cloud computing"), new programming languages (VB is quickly being replaced with C#, you know), new standards (OPC DA is fine now, tomorrow it is OPC UA, the day after tomorrow it is OPC ZXQ..).

I am sure that many will disagree with me.

Charles.

I am interested in this. I didnt know that this was even possible.
Downer is that the smartaccess license is not so cheap for PC RT.
 
hmm

I'm thinking and still don't know which way to follow...

PS: about windows changing... donno... wincc flexible is changing also really fast, and will a created runtime run on windows 7... ?
I don't think that is my problem...

The only problem I see is that I have to use things that I've never used before, like OPC for example. I know VB, but never written any software for a machine in it... etc...

So maybe a PC Runtime would be best, but I think my boss will always choose the cheapiest.


I still don't know what to use.

The advantage of wincc flex runtime is indeed that I know that it'll work.

WinCC (not flexible) is a bit to expensive to think about...


800 euros wil not be a problem I think to make it happen.


Like I say, I still don't know wich one...

If CSV would work well, then I would choose CSV, but the customer needs to make recipes in a handy way without the possibillity to fail.




JesperMP said:
Combo.

If this is a one-off project, then I think that a standard WinCC Flex PC RT + Archives and Recipes is a no-brainer. You already use WinCC Flex so you can implement it in a very short time for an investment of 800 Euro.

If this is decision for the long run, and you count on reusing the effort invested on many other projects, then maybe a do-it-yourself approach will be OK. I would not do it for a single project.
In my own company we have a dedicated programmer to make some of our HMI soultions for standardised machines, and he is fully booked with 90% maintenance work, and maybe 10% "new development". The problem is not making the 1st project. The problem is maintaining the software over a very long time. You have to think about what happens when new Windows versions are released (prepare for Windows 7, and maybe "cloud computing"), new programming languages (VB is quickly being replaced with C#, you know), new standards (OPC DA is fine now, tomorrow it is OPC UA, the day after tomorrow it is OPC ZXQ..).

I am sure that many will disagree with me.

Charles.

I am interested in this. I didnt know that this was even possible.
Downer is that the smartaccess license is not so cheap for PC RT.
Click to expand...
 
vba

i can write it in vba too, and use excell, that's no problem...

But I need OPC again then.


I really don't know which way to follow.

WinCC Flexible Runtime on a PC is not bad... I'm thinking...
 
Combo said:
about windows changing... donno... wincc flexible is changing also really fast, and will a created runtime run on windows 7... ?
Click to expand...
As I see it, it is exactly this that we pay for when bying a shrink-wrapped package like WinCC Flexible.
When some new development appears, a horde of Siemens programmers will toil at making WinCC Flex work with this new stuff whatever it is. If it wasnt for this I dont see such a big advantage with bying a shrinkwrapped package.
I can see with my own projects, that supporting older projects is becoming more and more time-consuming.
Example: We have a homegrown webbased HMI (from a now cancelled department) which is heavily based on ActiveX components. Thing is, these ActiveX components do not work with XP or Vista, only 2000 !
The original programmer has left the company, and I am left with trying to support older customers. I guess it looked brilliant when they made it, but now I could kill the guy who took some of the strategic decisions back then.
 

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