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Old October 29th, 2012, 06:14 AM   #16
JeffKiper
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Paul open office does the same thing. It takes about 10~15 min. to fix it the fist couple times. I then learned to create a tag or to in C3 and export them. Then I take the .CSV from 500 and copy what I want. This way I get to see everything that is in the 500 file and don't have to strip anything out of it.

Side note I am still trying to find what I think works best for this. If the system is stand alone then I don't care to use direct tags. If it is going to be on a massive network then I look at how to reduce the data that is being sent over the network. I know of several guys that use Integer arrays instead of bits for packing data. Does this make a huge difference maybe maybe not.

Paul do you have an example of you data layout?
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Old November 9th, 2012, 09:57 AM   #17
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FYI, the hardware for the G3 Kadet and the Maple Systems 5000 series is the same. The software is totally different.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 07:33 AM   #18
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Well, I chose the Red Lion G307 Kadet. Turns out I have a ghosting issue on the screen. It appears to be temperature related. When the device is cold, it has ghosting on the screen. My customer is not happy with the issue and Red Lion seems resistant to help with the issue. They say it is with all Kadet units, not just this one.

Any thoughts?
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Old March 5th, 2013, 07:42 AM   #19
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The lower end screens do that bad. I was had a KEP that did that badly. It is a manufacturing problem. The original makers of these screens. All Red Lion does is add their operating system to these units.

Think of it like you bought a customized Ford van from a aftermarket dealer. All the Ford transmissions are slipping. Your van transmission is slipping also. Is that the aftermarket dealer's problem or Ford?
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Old March 5th, 2013, 10:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffKiper View Post
The lower end screens do that bad. I was had a KEP that did that badly. It is a manufacturing problem. The original makers of these screens. All Red Lion does is add their operating system to these units.

Think of it like you bought a customized Ford van from a aftermarket dealer. All the Ford transmissions are slipping. Your van transmission is slipping also. Is that the aftermarket dealer's problem or Ford?
I dont understand your analogy.
The screen was bought from redlion, and has a redlion name on it. Who cares who originally built it, redlion is selling it as their own product. If it is a known issue, they should stop selling it.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 12:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by controlled View Post
I dont understand your analogy.
The screen was bought from redlion, and has a redlion name on it. Who cares who originally built it, redlion is selling it as their own product. If it is a known issue, they should stop selling it.
I agree. No matter how much we like the Red Lion team and their products, those pictures are of a broken thing under warranty. If they are selling broken things they will be honoring those warranties, I know I would never accept screens looking like that. And with such a good name to protect, you would think they would be kisting some serious ask to keep this type of issue on the down low.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 01:05 PM   #22
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Sorry I didn't mean for it to come acoss as Red Lion shouldn't do anything. They should replace accept the return and NOT provide a Kadet as a replacement because the cold climate is casing problems for that device. The should definitely stand behind the product.

I was saying that the blame falls on Wientek fir the original design if the screen. Red Liin is just the middle man in this case.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 03:22 PM   #23
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With regards to your ghosting issues, let me ask, what are the environmental conditions of your screen installation?

I ask this because the display is liquid crystal.

The display remains Liquid crystal as long as its temperature specs are not exceeded. Especially at the lower end (i.e. 32 DegF). When the lower end temperature is exceeded and electrical signals are present the Liquid Crystal tends to become just Crystal.

This is a fact of life and not particular to any manufacturer's LCD.

LCD's are more resilliant when they are not being used in colder temperatures as is easily seen in lower storage temperature specifications. However, the unit must be warmed up before using. Applying power to warm it up creates the same ghosting effect.


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Old March 5th, 2013, 04:29 PM   #24
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Ah, yes, if you are installing the product in violation of the mfg. recommendations (0-45C), that does sorta let them off the hook.

Those are TFT which I believe is a type of LCD...
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Old March 5th, 2013, 04:53 PM   #25
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The screen is indoors, in a warehouse. The environment is not too cold. As I said, it is no colder than 60F or 65F. I was at the site today, and the ghosting was not there. It is intermittent. Originally, I thought it was electrical noise until the guy at Red Lion tech support said that it was temperature related. And that makes more sense.

It is not a harsh environment whatsoever. It does not even get used with every machine cycle. It only will get used to set up and tweak settings.

Of course, it would never get to 32F in this place. The workers would freeze.

Red Lion customer support just called me back and said that they are working on a software fix for this. I personally feel that this is not a software issue, but a hardware issue.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 08:26 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychosunshine View Post
The screen is indoors, in a warehouse. The environment is not too cold. As I said, it is no colder than 60F or 65F. I was at the site today, and the ghosting was not there. It is intermittent. Originally, I thought it was electrical noise until the guy at Red Lion tech support said that it was temperature related. And that makes more sense.

It is not a harsh environment whatsoever. It does not even get used with every machine cycle. It only will get used to set up and tweak settings.

Of course, it would never get to 32F in this place. The workers would freeze.

Red Lion customer support just called me back and said that they are working on a software fix for this. I personally feel that this is not a software issue, but a hardware issue.
I didn't see where you had described the installation. So it's well within their spec, the ball is in their court. I think you are right about hardware, but how many hardware problems have you programmed around? I bet they are going to try that route because if successful, would definitely be more painless for everyone than a lot of hardware swapping.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 11:18 PM   #27
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I have had the same ghosting problem with 2 of 5 different 7" Kadets I have used this year. As an OEM it is impossible to ship a machine to a customer with a faulty HMI, so these have caused issues. Still no answer from Red Lion on this, just "send it back to your dealer for warranty" - and wait 3 weeks for it to be exchanged.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 11:25 PM   #28
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I only have one (original) Kadet in a nasty environment going on 4 years now I think, with zero problems, crisp and accurate to touch as new, just a little faded from the atmosphere around the bezel (water treatment room).

I am starting to think Red Lion got stuck with a lemon after the older Kadets went away. Hopefully, they'll do all they can to make it right.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 08:48 AM   #29
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I have older Kadets in machines around the world, and they have been great. Just wish they would help out a little more with this new 7" ghost issue. All I can do when I get a bad one is order another one to replace it and send that one back for warranty.
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Old March 8th, 2013, 11:27 AM   #30
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Sorry for the delay in discovering this topic but I do have some answers regarding this situation.
1. Since first learning of this issue, we have been conducting internal tests as well as working with our hardware component suppliers.
2. While the root cause has not yet been determined with finality, there appears to be a flaw in the LCD screen. The LCD screen supplier has been involved in our investigations into the problem.
3. Working with the LCD supplier, we have devised a test which will be put into effect while investigation into the root cause continues.
4. 100% of LCD screens will be tested before use in the final assembled HMI.
5. 100% of our current stock of finished units will be tested prior to release for shipment.
6. Pending results of inventory testing, we should be able to resume shipments next week.

Thanks
Jeremy
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