Automation direct

From a manufacturer's prespective, it is not always economically feasible to develop a product that can be private labeled. Your development cost is minimal and your time to market is much quicker. On the down side, your cost / unit will be higher when purchasing from another manufacturer so your margin will be less. You will also have to consider that if you go and develop the product from scratch, it may not always work the first time out. So now you have to go back to the drawing board. (this is your time to market factor)

We first looked at incorporating / offering other manufacturer's products about 12 years ago when we were redesigning our controllers with serial ports and operator interfaces were becoming popular. Our thinking was, we are a PLC manufacturer and we should focus on that. We knew very little about developing an operator interface. The time it would have taken to develop the product would have made us take engineering dollars and time away from our core products. There are companies out there that this is their core product. Why not maximize resources by focusing on what you know, while other companies focus on what they know.

We have aligned ourselves with several companies whose' core products are operator interfaces. It was a natural fit. People will tell us, that looks like such and such. We will tell them that yes it is. We private label it under "this name" Our objective is to support any product that we offer with our PLCs. If we are unable to support it in house, we will not offer it. There have been times where we have had to go back to our supplier, because there will be a question or circumstance that comes up that we were unable to answer. Our customer will always get an answer to their question. Sometimes it may take a little longer than we like.

Unlike AB, AD, GE, Omron...etc who basically offer their own operator interfaces for resell while offering compatibility for other operator interface manufacturers...we are offering what we consider to be the best products non-PLC manufacturers have to offer.

Today our objective is to find products that will enhance the OEM's solution where today's PLCs fall short. Just recently, we started offering an Ethernet to serial gateway for our PLCs. We are continually looking at other peripheral devices to enhance our PLC product offering.

Just imagine if AB were to design everything they offer today, their engineer and development teams would be many times the size they are now, not to mention their cost structure

Automation Direct is the distribution channel of Koyo and a master distributor of the other manufacturers they supply. They offer the support a distributor would offer.

Our goal is to provide the support of a manufacturer for the products we private label. Providing our customers one stop shopping and support.

Do you design what the market is asking for? Do you private label someone else's product? Or do you do nothing? For instance the "smart relay" you are finding that most of the larger companies are private labeling. They consider that rather than not have something to offer in this product category, they need something. It was approximately 2 years ago, you saw a flood of these products hit the market. Everyone needed something and quick. So rather than develop, they private labeled.

One of the biggest drawbacks to not designing or manufacturing your own product is that you lack the ability to make modifications. Manufacturing our controllers, we can modify any one for a customer that has a special requirement. For other devices that we offer, change isn't easy. Usually, and understandibly, there are design costs to make modifications. With the larger PLC manufacturers, this usually isn't an issue, because even their own products they will not modify.

I can't speak for AB or AD but for us, our focus is to provide a total solution for the PLC. Things like sensors, limit switches and output devices are commodity items that are usually obtained through distribution. Solutions such as datalogging or communications are directly linked to the PLC. This is our focus.

Basically what all this is saying is that there are times when it is to a manufactuer's advantage to incorporate other manufacturer's products rather than reinvent the wheel. You don't stop being a manufacturer, by offering other products that are not your own, you have just made a strategic business decision that will benefit both you and your customer.

God Bless,

Stephen
 
If you want a PLC you buy Allen Bradley or Siemens. Anything else is just some accountants dream that all products are created equal. I have had quite abit of experience both as the guy in the plant that takes over the care and nuturing of well over 200 plc's and the OEM electrical engineer that has to provide support globally for a product. The Front runner is Allen Bradley period, if you can get Allen Bradley the get Siemens, but run couldn't run fast enough to throw a Koyo at me. I've been there and done that.
You must truly have a need for grief. My advice start a hobby on the weekend deposit the koyos in the dumptster and get a real PLC.

Jim
 
Allen-Bradley

As most of you know I am only familiar with A-B PLCs.
I simply want to say that the support, on site and off, from Allen-Bradley has been great, I can't imagine anyone doing better. I know a lot of you have had a chance to work with many PLC names and have had good and bad experiences with them but for me Allen-Bradley has gone the extra mile a number of times. They even sent two technicians to my home and loaded software on my personal PC and spent the remainder of the day walking me through it.
One other comment, a 250 million-dollar company is small by comparison to the company I worked for, our last project was 93 million to renivate one operation in a single division. 27 million of that was for Allen-Bradley equipment and associated electrical equipment. (could this be a reason for such good treatment?)
:rolleyes:

There is a saying that goes "There are only two brands of PLCs, one is Allen-Bradley and the other is all the rest"

Roger
 
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What PLC should do ?
The fieldbus idea is decentralize intelligence to field devices, so
Main controller just tell them, do this, do that and intelligent field device do it.

We can do everthing as declaration ramps etc. in plc program, but VFD manufacturers have done that properties inside the PLC.
In my mind PLC program must be as simple as possible and then simple plc model is enough, scan time is short etc.
PLC is not DataBase handler for its limited ram-memory, PC is done for that etc.

Not sense what PLC I like use. I have to keep in my mind that maybe I'm only people in this neighborhood who is familiar with it, so I have to use commonly known manufacturer PLC. Usually my customer tell me what PLC they like.

Someone doubt Ethernet networking speed. It is possible to do with Optic fiber and 1Gbits/s. It is very very much more speed than in ControlNet, it means 500 INT / 0.04 ms with 1/2 effective load.
1Gbits/s is not the final word in Fiber Optic bus, they research 1Tbits/s speed in USA.
 
to rogerhollingsworth:
I have done my small business at home last 15 years. When I call to some support I feel small myself, but if I tell them some big (here) comppany name as my 'MetsoValmet project', the service grows up!
AB, IFM and Omron supports here are well for me without gimmick and they are present.
 
AD and TRW

Just to let ya know, were building a new line for TRW, and they have changed thier PLC requirement to AD PLCs. Its been a long time since I used one of these (it was a Koyo PLC then). I must say tho, the PLC costs us about 20% of what a SLC would have cost. Since I have an app for this furnace style in AB already, I wasnt too happy with it, but hey, my time will be saved in the PLC costs.
 
WOW

Is not a great world, we live!!! Gentlemen use what makes your company and you happy. Oh did, I forgot to mention my favored PLC line Unitronics !!!!
 
rogerhollingsworth,

You stated the following:

There is a saying that goes "There are only two brands of PLCs, one is Allen-Bradley and the other is all the rest"

I just wanted to let you know of another saying regarding AB, "You can buy better, but you can't pay more."

Mike
 
Be happy your major PLC is not Simatic.

In this forum over 50% of questions are for Allen Bradley PLCs.
What it tells me their support quality ? Not any KOYO questions !
 
market share

I think that has more to due with market share in the US than anything else. Market share over time too. Just look at the PLC 2 stuff that keeps showing up. Ive always found that support is better from my local vendor than from AB. I think im lucky to have a really good local vendor tho.
 
Sigh. To resurrect a 9 month old thread and start another my plc is bigger than yours...

But..

The last two posts raises an interesting question about questions here. Besides market share, another theory I have is that people who are doing more complex stuff on non AD plc (AB, siemens, etc.). The simple stuff ends up on AD. Does it hold water? Not that AD can't do it. (I have no idea- I have never used AD) But people are more budget concious on the simple (small) stuff.
 
The "AB can do no wrong" crowd will enthusiastically agree with you Rick.

The "AB can do no right" crowd will say the reason there are so many AB queries is because AB makes everything overly complicated.

Several years ago I sold a large SCADA system to a customer. When I followed up with the engineers to see how it was working out, I was told.

"I've got good news and bad news. The good news is that the tech support people for that product are great. They really know their stuff, and are patient, helpful, and they stay with you until the problem is solved. The bad news is, they'd better be good because we have to call them ten times a day!"
 
Bang for the Buck...and Software

My 2 cents :)

I have used AB extensively. Recently, I decided to go to Unitronics PLCs exclusively. I like the versatility, the software, and the price. They have more options for the dollar on a single unit than any other plc I know about, and a built-in HMI into the bargain.

That said, the thing that gripes me on AB is software. It's old news, but it bears repeating : when you own an AB, it owns you.

I'm getting ready to shell out big bucks for the latest edition of RS Logix, for no better reason than this : if I have to order a processor to replace a unit on the floor, my current version will not communicate with it at all.

As for the AB "wonderful service", well, in my last phone call to the tech support, they reminded me that my service contract had run out, and wished me luck. But for only a few hundred dollars, they'll be happy to help again! The only wonderful thing about it was the guy who answered the phone actually did advise me for a few minutes, while pointing out that he wasn't supposed to.

Can you say "extortion"? I can. And it's why I use Uni's now, and if I run into something beyond the Uni, I'm going Giddings and Lewis.

TM, the disgruntled FORMER Allen-Bradley fan.
 

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