BASHING - Is there too much?

[CaseyK]

With another thread going on about bashing, time for a poll.

Is there too much bashing?

Vote for one or more items.

 

[CroCop]

I voted for all 4.
However, there isn't enough bashing IMO. It's the internet(s). If you can't take a little heat & humor, get off of it & go see Dr. Phil to talk about your feelings.

 

[elevmike]

Casey,

What drives me crazy is super vague questions. No desired result, no discription whatsoever of the application, no mention of the PLC brand and model etc....When I see a post that requires one to play "20 questions", I feel very tempted to bash. I try not to, but it's very tempting.....

 

[PLucas]

Personally I can't see a problem.

Maybe that's because I haven't been on the receiving end of any 'bashing' yet!

Or have I?

Maybe I am too thick to notice as I am only a tech!

When I stumbled across this forum about 4 or 5 years ago, there was a certain member (who is still active) who was on the receiving end of some 'bashing', which, at the time, I did think was totally uncalled for. This member, in my opinion, posted some execellent posts and came across an a very knowledgeable person.

I will have to vote for I don't see it as a problem.

Paul

 

[keithkyll]

People come here for information. As a growing searchable site, I consider it a constantly current Encyclopedia for PLC's and related electronics/mechanics.

In my responses, I try to give details for the benefit of future readers.
Whether the future reader is a student or has a problem, they shouldn't have to weed through junk.

Belly-aching, bashing, and threads about bashing are inappropiate here. I say purge it all.
Wow, did I just do a bash?

 

[Binaural]

My view is that if you are asking for answers to your questions, you sometimes have to wear some gruffness (particularly if you have put no thought into those questions). Most engineers and techs are busy people and I am not inclined to quibble if my answers are not excessively polite and long-winded. Often a bit of a reproof will help a poster get it right in the future!

Relevant answers are all I really care about, and to learn from the problems of others. If I know the answer, I'll try to share it to give back, since I find that composing an answer is helpful to my own learning and it's nice to be able to help!

Really, about the only aggressively nasty post I have seen recently is the one posted by yam785, who comes across like he has a bit of a personality problem (quite possibly an Internet Tough Guy). The likes of him are not often seen on this forum, for which I am grateful - bashing is not a problem here.

As a side note, a study I read the other day suggests that people interpret tone in an received email correctly only about 50% of the time, i.e. about as well as random chance, and I imagine it's the same on a written forum. So to compensate I try to take a charitable view of posts that sound a bit stupid or nasty and reply in a postitive fashion.

 

[jvdcande]

Hello friends,

I have been bashed on occasions too, but I didn't find any harm in it at all. After all, I have stepped on many toes too and have been involved in some, I think mild, bashing also. It does however strike me that some people find they're bashed but they are native English speakers responding to posts by people who's native language is not English. And as a native Dutch speaker I know it's not always easy to speak out in another language what you're thinking about or what you're intending to say. Over the past few years my knowledge of English has improved a lot partly because I was involved in discussions on this site (and you can see my counter has almost reached 1000 by now).

It is also a fact that bashing is and always has been around on the shop floor too. I have had my share of it, bot at the receiving end as well as on the sending end of it. As long as it is a mild form of bashing, nobody ever get hurt, except maybe for the ego. But slimming down MY ego has so far not hurt me, but instead helped me mature. I can only hope it does the same for the people my bashing has been aimed at.

The bottom line for me is that I find a lot of people here I consider to be my friends even though I don't know them personally (however, for some it feels as if I do). And if friends can't use some friendly bashing, who can?

Very kind regards,

 

[BobB]

I was very tempted to respond to the "bashing" accusations in the other thread but refrained.

The complainant aimed all his accusations at "you engineers". The interesting thing is that there are far more trades people here (don't generally call them techs in this part of the world) than engineers.

I might also add that the engineers here appear to be extremly savvy and very experienced in a lot of very specialised areas where I have never trodden. I admire their expertise. A lot of that knowledge can then be applied quite easily in other areas.

I might explain to the complainant that I am only a "silly old electrical fitter" who has learned more from falling on his a**e more time than you can poke a stick at. In other words a tech. I spent many years on break down service long before PLCs became common and have spent many years since doing the same thing with PLCs. I also do all my own design work, build the control panels, write the software and commission the job.

I find it quite interesting that when I go to site where there is a PLC I do not even take my laptop in at first. The look is usually quite puzzling as it is "always the PLC at fault". General lack of understanding of course. I ask for the drawings, what is the problem and the results. Quite often I never have to take the laptop out of the car but grab a print out of the program, trace the drawings out and observe the input lights on the PLC. Then usually point out that a switch/proximity/PE cell is not inputting into the PLC. Check with a multimeter of course in case the input is blown up.

I really fail to understand where the complainant has a problem with the responses on the site and certainly voted "can't see a problem".

Oh by the way, I should ask our complainant if a power station is down 2500 kilometres away, a whole island in the dark, a PLC system running on batteries (9 PLCs), a SCADA computer running on a UPS, me on the phone and dialled in to the power station computer by modem, drawings all over the floor, the guy at the other end is a very smart electrician but is Chinese and pretty hard to understand, and between us we are trouble shooting the power station is enough pressure? The UPS has only 15 minutes to go before it dies. 2 days to travel there by plane and the plane cannot land because there is no power to run the airport stuff. GREAT!!!!!

 

[Ken M]

I've not been the subject of any bashing, or at least I've not noticed it if I was! The only area I feel tempted to do some bashing is those questions which show a total lack of preparation or involvement on the part of the questioner. I have a friend who does a lot of family history research and every so often he tells me of yet another message posted on one of the forums by someone (sorry guys, it's usually an American!) who says something like

My name is Campbell. My mother always said we were descended from the Dukes of Argyll. Please send me my family tree immediately.

Yeah, right!
I've tried to explain that we get the same sort of thing here

I have a proximity switch and a petrochemical complex. Send me the wiring diagrams.

I try, I really try, not to respond to that type of post but sometimes I just write an answer and then not post it. At least it makes me feel better.
Overall, bash away. It certainly used to be standard practice in British industry for established employees in a company to humiliate and embarrass apprentices by every means possible, and I see this as the modern day equivalent. Of course, beware if you're one of the old-timers who slips up and gets caught by an apprentice - you'll never live it down!

Regards

Ken

 

[burnerman]

I don't see a problem, I haven't noticed much bashing at all, except maybe towards IT departments.

Can't see why someone should get upset unless a bash were directed at them personally or if "the cap fits".

It doesn't matter what your discipline is, you're not gonna get far in this game unless you develop broad shoulders, thick skin and a knife-proof back.

 

[PhilipW]

I suggest that it is largely a matter of context. As we all know it far too easy to start a flame war in any forum, (having started one myself recently I can hardly point the finger)...but the lesson learnt is that in this place...courtesy should always come first.

Personally I also participate in a local NZ political forum that is as robust as it gets, and if I want to blow off some testosterone with a spot of chest beating, that's the place for it. But it is my feeling that PLCs.net should maintain it's professionalism....and minimise the biffo.

 

[geniusintraining]

Some people take things to heart, they get to emotional and when someone proves them wrong or they realize that they should of figured it out them selves, then they take that as a insult.

Sometimes its also hard to express yourself the way that you want…you may not mean to come across in that manner, I have offered advice (help) to people and they took it the wrong way

When I was learning to be a ‘mechanic’ my nick name was dopey (go ahead laugh), they were old time tech’s that has help me be what I am today, looking back I am 10 times better then they would of ever thought of being.

I work with 150 people in this plant, do I like all of them? NO, do I disrespect them? NO, point being that there are a lot more people in this site then 150, I will not like them all or I will like some better.

 

[snimra]

Some people have different style of saying things. I would say that most active members of this forum are very experienced. Difficult questions coming from a rookie may sound silly to others.
No harm in bashing (it makes this forum interesting ) but with the questions answered. Some people may need guidance.

 

[Steve Bailey]

If nothing else, because they demonstrate that some people are more easily offended than others, threads like this may help to rein in our coarser instincts. By coarser instincts, I mean the gut reaction to put up a sarcastic response to a poorly phrased question.

At the same time, it ought to point out to those who take offense easily, that a certain amount of crudeness is inevitable in the real world. You need to learn how to deal with those things which are beyond your control.

 

[ChuckM]

Feel bashed? Cry me a river. People these days are too big of whine bags. Makes me wonder if they get their knickers so bunched up over an Internet message board post how they handle something they don't like in a face to face real life situation. We do not have the right to not be offended as some would like to believe.

As far as the student thing, I do think there should maybe be a part of the forum where they can honestly ask for help where it can be identified as a student question. And if one wishes to help them great. If they choose not to help they can keep the "Do your own homework" replies to themselves.

Tech, engineer, grease monkey, rocket scientist... Who give a rats anus? If you can't look at the job you do and feel satisfied with your own work then don't get your 'muscle stomachs' worked up if someone online doesn't.