Way OT – Employer/Employee Conflict

[jthomes]

Actually, if you want to move to Iowa, There is an opening at my company starting Monday. My last day is tomorrow so they will be hitting the search hard soon

 

[kamenges]

Originally posted by anon_guy:

Yesterday my boss sends me an email (from his office 40 feet away) asking if I’m going to update him on what we discussed after work a couple of weeks ago. I replied to his email saying that I fully intended to, but that there’s really nothing to report; to which he replies that at my earliest convenience we need to discuss options.

If this is even reasonably close to the recorded transactions between you and your boss I don't think you will be filing anything any time soon. Illegal is only illegal if you can prove it. I don't know that you have the evidence to prove anything.

However, I also think you have two options. I just see them as:

1) Get married.
2) Get out.

You are already on the track for #1. No matter what, I would get on the track for #2. If your boss is willing to jack you around like this you are in for a pretty miserable professional life where you are at right now.

Keith

 

[mgvol]

Anyone's feelings or beliefs on "living in sin" are irrelevant from an employer-employee relationship. If I were a good friend or neighbor, I might talk to you about your current relationship arrangement as a friend/neighbor, but not if I were your employer or supervisor. He has clearly crossed a line here and you should pursue action. I don't believe in 99% of the lawsuits I hear about, but this is exactly why we have federal employment laws. You don't have to see a lawyer per se, get an appointment with the closest state or federal Dept. of Labor office and show them any/all documentation you have.

I had a friend that was vice-prez of an engineering firm, who was lured away by my former employer. After the big project we were working on was finished, he went out of his way to make my friend so miserable that he would quit (but he wouldn't fire him, even though my friend told him to fire him if he was that unhappy with him). When things finally got unbearable, he quit, but he kept a paper trail about 4" thick of memos and e-mails from the boss. The state Labor Dept. found in his favor on his claim that he was "harrassed" into quitting. The employer subsequently filed a civil suit against him, and the courts found in favor of my friend again, due in no small part to his thorough documentation. Don't sell yourself short, you can find another job.

 

[MarkTTU]

I can't really add anything that hasn't already been said, but I am curious what some of the other employers think. I like what Tom had to say about some of his employees and keeping his mouth shut, but I think you should keep in mind that even if its subconscious the dis-approval will affect decisions regarding those employees. So where are the rest of the employers that hang out here?

 

[plchacker]

First, Congratulations, on your engagement!

If you are in a small town, and intend to stay there, be careful with law suits. It may be better to find another job, and leave quietly. Employers in small towns tend to carry a lot of weight. Don't think for a minute that weight won't get tossed around.



Legal, or not, fair or not, small towns are small towns, and nowhere more so than in the Deep South. More business takes place around the coffee table in the local restaurant before work than throughout the rest of the day.



This is not a close election, it is your career, and in a small town the way you handle this is all too important.



I agree, if you’re committed to marriage, big wedding in the Church, all invited. Heck, boil a pot of mudbugs, and fire up the grill. Make sure that the Preacher is satisfied with your decision. Who knows? The AC may be the preacher and/or the boss.



Small town lawyers are well aware of the ins and outs of this environment. A good one may be of use without a law suit.



Besides, "I sued the **** out of my last employer," never looks good on an application. Well maybe if you live up North, but trust me, not down here.

BTW, I personally believe that you have every right to be very upset. The advice from up North is correct, with the exception of what I like to call "small town aristocracy." Its a different world down here. If you don't mind moving, secure the new job, move and then sue. Just don't let him know he upset you, and protect your Resume'.

One last thing, If your salary was cut, then you most definatley should find a new job. If not, there is a good chance that your career will improve after you get married.

 

[plchacker]

But then you could take him out to a strip club, and a casino. He'd most likely accept.

 

[JohnM]

Things that involve work stay at work, your personal life is nobodies business whether they be coworkers or friends. This includes your boss, unless your personal life affects your performance at work.

As for looking for a job, I note that your location line says Texas, Things are picking up around Lubbock. I am a one man show and am buried for one guy, but not enough for two people. Others around here are looking for bodies to fill seats and hoping that they work out as programmers/engineers.

Good Luck with whatever decision you make, marriage and job wise.

JPM

 

[Eddie Willers]

I'm an engineer, not a lawyer...

This sounds Ugly with a capital U. I, like most members of the Forum, immediately thought about how plainly illegal your boss's behavior is, not to mention it's basic moral questionability.

But then I got to reading a bit, especially about the specific focus of Federal laws on the subject.

The most famous of these is probably the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It prohibits, on a Federal level, employment discrimination based on "race, color, religion, ***, and national origin."

Added on over the years have been protection against age discrimination in 1967, then disability discrimination in the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 and the Americans with Disabilities Act in 1990. Probably the closest related Federal law is the Family Medical Leave Act of 1993. The US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) enforces all these Federal laws.

What I'm getting to here is that although virtually all public (Federal, State, and Municipal) agencies have additional employment rules that include marital status as a protected aspect of a person's employment, less than half of States have a law regarding this behavior in private companies.

The Texas Labor Code's Chapter 21 is very plain about protection from discrimination by private employers on the basis of "race, color, disability, religion, ***, national origin, or age."

See what's missing ?

It astonishes me, but what your boss is doing may be legal, and you would not be able to cite a law that prohibits his actions if you were to launch a lawsuit.

So it's back up to you.

I say keep records on everything anyhow, and look for employment somewhere that doesn't consider "Footloose" to be a documentary.

 

[elevmike]

Mark,

As an employer, I would tell you that it's my opinion that the employer in this case is overstepping his bounds. However you live your personal life, (so as long as it does not interfere with your performance at work), should be no concern of his. PERIOD! I'm not a liberal by a long shot, but this is way too much.

 

[Binaural]

The behaviour of your boss is revolting. Demoting somebody for reasons other than performance is vindictive behaviour and you should not stand for it. By the sound of it you're happy and have been looking after your fiance and the children and that's what matters, not some ridiculous religious edict about marriage.

Those of you who seriously suggest solving the problem by getting married, think again. Would you like your own boss to be able to dictate your personal life? If the OP were an atheist or from another religion, would the boss be justified in telling him to go to church, or give more money to charity? The conventional wisdom of having a boss stay out of the private lives of his/her employees exists for a reason.

However, as several other posters have pointed out, suing your is a good way to ruin your reputation in the industry, regardless of whether his actions are legal or not. However, consider his treachery as an valid excuse to spend lots of time looking for jobs online

 

[panic mode]

i agree, this is serious invasion of private space... i see reports on CNN about some town in Missoury where they want to separate or evict people living together if they don't meet certain criteria. what is happening with land of free?

i've heard somewhere "believe in what you want but keep your religion to thyself, those who can't ARE fanatics". can't agree more...

 

[orwell2]

I think you should consult real legal authority first, but I am afraid you will find you have few options if Texas law is like Mass law.
It is sad that we are losing good men and women fighting the the likes of the Taliban and AlQueeda and we have our own version right here in the the land of the free.

 

[RussB]

RussB,

I would like to say I agree with what you are trying to say, sort of. The issue isn't with his religion, it's with what his boss is doing. I agree that the church would be a good place to go and clear the air with the minister or priest or whatever. But if his boss had an issue with what color he painted his house and demoted him for it, his boss would still be wrong (a little strange, but it's just a point). Maybe explaining to the minister the future plans could stop the trouble, but the damage has been done. What happens outside the workplace should stay outside the workplace, unless it effects the workplace. His living arrangements should have no bearing on his job. As long as he is performing as required and doing his job, he should not have been demoted because someone doesn't like the way he lives.

BY the way, Anon_guy, Congrats and Good luck in your marrage.

Russ, yes I know where the church is. I also have very deeply rooted beliefs when it comes to God and religion (yes I believe in God). My beliefs do not reconcile with any modern religion I am aware of and I am ok with that as well. In addition, before you ask, a year ago I would not have thought I would ever be living ‘in sin’ today but life has a tendency to throw situations at you that are full of issues you never even dreamed of. I will not go into my decision making process with you, but I am comfortable with my decisions to date.

I apologize for my feeble attempt to be PC. My inference to the "Truth" was mint to point you to the Bible, not your Church.

My opinion of this is:

1. It should not have been brought up here, unless you have no other trustworthy friends to turn to.
1.a. What your employer says or thinks is irrevilent. How you see your girl-friend and what you (and GOD) 'think' of each other is more important.

2. The Bible is the only "Truth" that can give any of us definitive answers to how we should live. The state and federal laws are not the final say, they are just the current trend. God's law is the final say. I will not judge you but I believe that when you die or Christ returns, you will be judged to determin where you will spend eternity. What do you want on your record?

3. Again, this is only what I believe. If I am wrong it makes no difference what course you take. All that matters is that you get what you want today
But,
If I am right whose side do you want to be on? The side who spends eternity (That is a LONG time.) in H e a v e n or in h e l l?
4. Do not missunderstand, I am not judging you for your lifestyle, I am only giving you my interpretation of what I believe that the Bible is telling me. If you were not looking for different opinions you would NOT have posted here.

 

[rsdoran]

I am not worried if anyone agreed with what I said earlier because it was an option to be considered, only anon can decide what to do.

Personally I do not think his boss is doing anything illegal, many companies can establish morality as part of the job. This does not have to be contractural either. As plchacker mentioned the southern states are different in some respects to other states. We are located in a region that is called the Bible Belt which means religious belief is a dominant force therefore morality issues can be an important factor especially in small towns.

A company with less than 15 employees does not have to abide by the Labor Laws in some situations. You might prove some form of justification...maybe, to the Unemployment Agency that will get you a check if not working but I would not bet on that if you quit the job. You could talk to the state Labor Department and see what they say.

The other aspect, if I read the first statements correct, is you are living with the woman and each of you have made an agreement of marriage. That is 2 of 3 requirements in Texas for a common-law marriage which is just as legal as any marriage.

Texas

Common-law marriage is known as an "informal marriage," which can be established either by declaration (registering at the county courthouse without having a ceremony), or by meeting a 3-prong test showing evidence of (1) an agreement to be married; (2) cohabitation in Texas; and (3) representation to others that the parties are married. However, if a couple does not commence a proceeding to prove their relationship was a marriage within two years of the end of the relationship, by law the marriage never existed in the first place, and no agreement to be married was ever present. See Texas Family Code Sec. 2.401.

So you could establish a common-law marriage which would give you 2 years to decide whether to take it further or not. I would not explain the details to the boss but with your mates consent you could just represent to others that you are married which would fulfill #3 and establish common law.

This should end the situation with your boss and possibly restore you in good faith. Even if it does not it could allow more time on the job to find another position if that is your choice.

Since you are in a small town where many people may know each other then there is always talk about situations like this. Ever thought about the effect it could have on her children? Or if the kids are in school what other kids may be saying to them?

All I am doing is offering options, its up to you to decide how to handle the situation.

 

[CroCop]

Grow a sac and quit.
Walk out tommorrow.
Life's to short to bow to some facist's demands of your living arrangements.
And I'd hit him in the face square for good measure.