OT - Site conditions

Having spent the last week or so on my first American site, where new conveying systems are being installed, I was wondering am I seeing the 'norm' here, or is it just the standards on this particular site so appaling.

I have seen rubbish strewn all over the floor, occassionally they have a clear up which consists of sweeping the rubbish into a pile (no attempt to actually clear it).

Trailing leads all over the floors with no barriers or protection, in some cases loosely coiled in walkways.

Electical panels left open all over the place, with 500VAC terminals and bus sections all open (as mentioned on another thread I have found North American panel standards very sub-standard).

Parts all over the floor, for example a pallet of side guards openned and then some taken away, the rest all over the place wherever they fell when whoever was searching for parts left them (in the walkway as well). But bits and pieces everywhere, mixed up with the rubbish above.

People smoking on the job, added to the above, making a fire very possible.

People welding, making no attempt to place shields around their job, blinding anyone who walks passed.

I saw one guy lasst night welding parts ON A CONVEYOR, that is, he placed what he wanted to weld onto a conveyor, using it as a table. These conveyors are being tested and were 'live', he made no attempt to isolate the conveyors and blinded me by spot welding as I approached to tell him.

Everything I have seen is like in the safety training videos and pictures back home as the 'not to do' section.


Is this the norm, or have I just whitnessed a very poorly controlled project???

lol - I'll let someone else defend our fine country! You should see how they do things here in Korea!

Not the norm here in Utah.
Definetely not the norm.

It varies. Many states are banning smoking in public, so that problem is ging away. In the states where it is still allowed, I only see it in union shops or where there are a lot of European vendors (they smoke like chimneys).

As for the trash, that's a reflection of the supervisor. I personally have to say that all of the installations I have been on have been pretty good. Sometimes it's hard to avoid piles of parts here and there for a couple of days, but trash isn't a problem. I don't think what you are seeing is the norm.

I would have to say I prefer European wiring standards in general. American control wiring seems clunky in comparison. Almost every time I open a new European cabinet on a new machine, the layout is pristine (but the software? That's another story for another day...).

That is definitely not the norm, but it is also unfortunately not rare either. Most of the things you describe are code violations and it sounds like OSHA could have a hayday in that plant.

Allowing smoking on the job varies from state to state and from company to company. For example, in my state (UT) smoking is prohibitied by law in the work place, but when I go to one of our European plants smoking is permiteed by the company because its not prohibited by law in that location. There is no smoking in our TX plants, but I'm not sure of the laws there either. We used to have a N.J. plant about 10 years ago where smoking was allowed in designated areas. (edit: I found this link on where smoking is prohibited by law the workplace - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States

You are seeing an example of poor managment practices that dramatically increase the risks of loss to the company - and they probably don't even care.

Just curious, where are you? You can be general and not specific if you don't want to.

Is this a union shop? Believe it or not, in some union shops you could be fired for taking out the grabage - you can push it out of your way, but only the union janitor is allowed to remove it.

PeterW said:

Having..........controlled project???

Click to expand...

And what did you do different? did you pick anything up? did you close the doors? or did you just ***** about it

I for one think that you need to lead by example, if you did start to care (and that is what this is) people being lazy and not caring in not the answer..

But to answer your question.... is it the norm? I think you can find lazy sloppy people anywhere in the World

Glad its not the norm, I can imagine what Korean sites must be like.

I'm sure I could find badly run sites in the UK, but in the field I'm in they tend to spend a lot of money and the sites are pristine. The last project I was on before coming over here was the most tightly controlled as far as safety is concerned I have been invloved with.

Smoking is barred from all industrial sites in the UK, its been the norm to have smoking rooms since the late 80's early 90's and even these are becoming a thing of the past.

This site is sin the 'Lone Stat State', it looks to me to be an accident waiting to happen.

As far as what did I do, did I go around clearing things up and telling people off. Well I'd love to be in the position to do someting about it but I don't work for the principle contractor, I'm not even directly invlolved with the project, which is nearing completion, I have just turned up to help test some new things in the software. So no I didn't add to the mess and I did't chase people around complaining about their mess either.


As far as what I'm used to, the floor is supposed to be left clean, parts stored properly, barriers are required to corden off areas where things are stored, welders should place up barriers, certainly they do not put things on the newly installed equipment to weld, if legitimately worki ng on equipment ot should be isolated and locked, panel doors have to be shut, if open to work in barriers and signs have to be erected, trailing leads should be threaded overhead if possible, if not barriers and signs should be errected and/or cable covered with protection against trips and loads. Smoking is not allowed at all.

Its like they have no safety officers here, either that or they turn a blind eye to everything.

PeterW said:

Smoking is barred from all industrial sites in the UK, its been the norm to have smoking rooms since the late 80's early 90's and even these are becoming a thing of the past.

This site is sin[sic] the 'Lone Stat State', it looks to me to be an accident waiting to happen.

Click to expand...

sin and the Lone Star State go hand in hand.... OK, seriously...

According the link I edited into my last post, it looks like in Texas smoking in the workplace is regulated at the local county or city level. There could be a varitey of reasons for that - which could be constitutional or statutory. You won't find a nationwide ban on smoking in the US because that power is not given to the federal government, its reserved to the individual states by the US constitution. Some sates enact statewide laws, while some enact laws at the local level.

As far as what I'm used to, the floor is supposed to be left clean, parts stored properly, barriers are required to corden off areas where things are stored, welders should place up barriers, certainly they do not put things on the newly installed equipment to weld, if legitimately worki ng on equipment ot should be isolated and locked, panel doors have to be shut, if open to work in barriers and signs have to be erected, trailing leads should be threaded overhead if possible, if not barriers and signs should be errected and/or cable covered with protection against trips and loads. Smoking is not allowed at all.

Its like they have no safety officers here, either that or they turn a blind eye to everything.

Click to expand...

We have a safety officer who is very much on the ball - though ironically he has been directly involved in a couple of accidents so we tease him a lot. But when it comes to safety he can turn into a real *** - which is his job to do and I think everyone here respects that.

Sadly that is often the norm for contractors. Cheap and dirty, quick in and quick out. After years of installing machines and systems I have seen just what you are refering to.
Just so everyone knows, one of the worst was at a large printer in Ontario. I was suprised that it even made it to start up. The floors and walls were being painted with epoxy and there was welding at the same time. I pulled my guys before it went boom. Nothing ever happened and now that the install is done it is a very safe plant.

PeterW said:

Having spent the last week or so on my first American site, where new conveying systems are being installed, I was wondering am I seeing the 'norm' here, or is it just the standards on this particular site so appaling.

I have seen rubbish strewn all over the floor, occassionally they have a clear up which consists of sweeping the rubbish into a pile (no attempt to actually clear it).

Trailing leads all over the floors with no barriers or protection, in some cases loosely coiled in walkways.

Electical panels left open all over the place, with 500VAC terminals and bus sections all open (as mentioned on another thread I have found North American panel standards very sub-standard).

Parts all over the floor, for example a pallet of side guards openned and then some taken away, the rest all over the place wherever they fell when whoever was searching for parts left them (in the walkway as well). But bits and pieces everywhere, mixed up with the rubbish above.

People smoking on the job, added to the above, making a fire very possible.

People welding, making no attempt to place shields around their job, blinding anyone who walks passed.

I saw one guy lasst night welding parts ON A CONVEYOR, that is, he placed what he wanted to weld onto a conveyor, using it as a table. These conveyors are being tested and were 'live', he made no attempt to isolate the conveyors and blinded me by spot welding as I approached to tell him.

Everything I have seen is like in the safety training videos and pictures back home as the 'not to do' section.


Is this the norm, or have I just whitnessed a very poorly controlled project???

Click to expand...

I didn't know you were at my plant, I would have introduced myself.

Seriously I think what you are seeing varies alot through different parts of the country and industry and most specificly by company.

The place I am working at now was a wreck when I got here, alot of the things you described were the norm. This place has been here 40 years, so has some of the equipment, as well as some of the people. Unfortunately the attitude towards safety and housekeeping had remained. I originally declined this job but was assured by someone higher than the PM that things were going to change.

It has been a monumental task to try and turn this place around. Old habbits die hard. This place is still a wreck but is getting better daily. The company has taken a serious attitude towards safety and housekeeping, dedicated resources to it, and held people accountable for the state of the site.

I think Alaric said it best, this isn't the norm but it isn't rare either. IMHOP places like these that don't shape up are going to be forced out of business, either by OSHA, by skyrocketing insurance premiums, or simply by being inneficient.

sin and the Lone Star State go hand in hand....

Hee Haw!! I must say that I live in the land of sin and that I have seen things both ways. Where I am employed now the company brought people on board during the last stages of the construction phase and all they did all day, about 10 to 15 people, was sweep and pick up trash. I have to admit that there were union shops in doing the construction work but that there are no union employees on the compound now. It was very clean and organized. I have also worked where it was a more open air place and astrays were the norm.
As far as the smoking goes, it is regulated by the local governments and employers usually prohibit it in common areas and never indoors, except at the local watering holes. Don't give up on us bubbas, we ain't all bad.