RANT: Why Can't People just Hire the Right Person For the Job????

[Stephen Luft]

finding a needle in a hay stack

The challenge isn't always in hiring the right person, but finding the right person.

April 2007 - I contact a long standing customer regarding their new applications.

It had been decided that they were going to use a Unitronics on one redesign and consider Entertron on the second project.

When I make initial contact, the Engineering manager tells me that they are working with a consultant and they are nearly done with project 1.

I follow up with him in about a month, and he tells me that the contractor has been MIA, so the project is delayed.

My customer also considers hiring the contractor, because he will work on other projects they have planned as well.

The contractor continues to drag things along for another several months.

The manager finally cuts bait on the contractor and looks at hiring someone to fill the position. After the due diligence process, they finally select what they consider to be the best candidate for the position. Three months later, they are no further along, then they were before.

They let this employee go, and hire another contractor.

Over one year transpires on a project that was near completion and still isn't complete to this day.

When dealing with an outside contractor, you are not their only client, so, you have very little control over their time.

Hiring someone, you have more control over their time, but need to train them. You don't know what will happen after the training is complete. You anticipate from your interview process that based on the information you have obtained, that the candidate has the required skills for the job. That isn't always the case in that some people interview better than they perform.

It is what the Bible calls separating the wheat from the chaff.

Sometimes taking someone and training them internally is the best option in that you know more about them than an outside contractor or a prospective new hire.


SNK wrote...

What I am worried about personally is the way that our society accepts this type of philosopy, in a business perspective. With our economy crashing the way that it is, with the manufacturing job losses, why would someone with no expertise take their time trying to fix something when they should have just hired a consultant that has a proven track record in that area of expertise.

If you are truly worried about this economy and the manufacturing job losses, then put your money where your mouth is and buy products that are manufactured in your country, rather than purchasing imported products.

If there is no alternative, that is one thing, but if you can purchase a product manufactured here, you are supporting the manufacturing jobs that you are so concerned about.

 

[tomalbright]

One of the things I've noticed while working offshore (Gulf of Mexico) is how many companies there are that do very little, and produce some of the most amazing garbage. How do they do it?

One, there are many, many oil companies, producers, and their contractors, contractees, and various personnel brought in by uncle Bob... these people are so far down the chain that management really doesn't notice. They get finished, canned, run-off from one job, they can go right next door to somebody else and do the same thing. With pay. Oil companies, at least they used to be, are able to just "throw money" at a problem in order to get the product they want.

Two, there is big business in going behind "others" and cleaning up after them. We do some of that. You know what? We don't ever go back, not because of poor performance, but because the job is DONE. And, we charge LESS than most of the "majors" out here.

I have seen the quality of work performed by several major companies here, doing PLC work. Names I used to respect, I now don't, because of what I have seen left behind.

I suspect it's that way worldwide; we just have to maintain our keel, so to speak, and keep doing the job we know best. I've been out here for 4 years... I am at this moment the longest-stretch employee on 20 platforms. That's counting operators, mechanics, and all third party contracts. Still doing what I'm doing!

 

[bkottaras]

Blame the contractor, he's not around to hear this

The challenge isn't always in hiring the right person, but finding the right person.

April 2007 - I contact a long standing customer regarding their new applications.

It had been decided that they were going to use a Unitronics on one redesign and consider Entertron on the second project.

When I make initial contact, the Engineering manager tells me that they are working with a consultant and they are nearly done with project 1.

I follow up with him in about a month, and he tells me that the contractor has been MIA, so the project is delayed.

My customer also considers hiring the contractor, because he will work on other projects they have planned as well.

The contractor continues to drag things along for another several months.

The manager finally cuts bait on the contractor and looks at hiring someone to fill the position. After the due diligence process, they finally select what they consider to be the best candidate for the position. Three months later, they are no further along, then they were before.

They let this employee go, and hire another contractor.

Over one year transpires on a project that was near completion and still isn't complete to this day.

When dealing with an outside contractor, you are not their only client, so, you have very little control over their time.As an outside contactor you dedicate as much time as you were told on a certain project. If and it is usually the case, the mentality of the place is "we'll get it when we get it" and "tomorrow is another day" as an outside contactor you haver to take care of other clients as well which by the way were scheduled way ahead of time. so... can't drop everybody else just because your "one" client dropped the ball on you. I have comittments and expect a steady stream of work from other clients as well, can't just tell them to wait just because my "one" client did not feel like completing their part on time. It is a 2-way street, either you like it or not.
And (not sure if that was the case but...) one thing that will speed up the process will be to PAY the contactor on time!!

Hiring someone, you have more control over their time, but need to train them. You don't know what will happen after the training is complete. Major issue here: Most of my clients have no one on board to train new employees, do the job themselves or anyone been there long enough to even know what they are about to build. Last place I did a project for, they now push their mech angineers to learn "Ladder Logic". That's the mentality of manufacturing places in the U.S or so I've seen in the last 4-5 years. Cut your work force down to a minimum, no training, tight deadlines and hope for the best. If things turn for the worse, blame the programmer, machine builder, the cleaning crew but not the people who went down that route!
You anticipate from your interview process that based on the information you have obtained, that the candidate has the required skills for the job. That isn't always the case in that some people interview better than they perform. Another issue: The interviewers happen to be upper managment people, accounting, project managers, sales people, owners for smaller outfits. They do NOT have a clue in other words!!

It is what the Bible calls separating the wheat from the chaff.

Sometimes taking someone and training them internally is the best option in that you know more about them than an outside contractor or a prospective new hire. And finally, you get what you paid for!! Giving out $18.00-25.00/hour and expecting the person to build you a space ship in about a week or less somehow won't happen!


SNK wrote...



If you are truly worried about this economy and the manufacturing job losses, then put your money where your mouth is and buy products that are manufactured in your country, rather than purchasing imported products.

If there is no alternative, that is one thing, but if you can purchase a product manufactured here, you are supporting the manufacturing jobs that you are so concerned about.

Feels good to blow off some steam once in a while.

 

[Pierre]

Enron. Like others. Looking for short term benefits.

Managements also has this in mind. What will my next year bonus be?

Maintenance has gone down.
Trainning has gone deep down.
"Cost of ownership" is almost never raised anymore in meetings.

Now we only see some of the results.

Its like buying a pair of shoes at Wall-Mart. Its not expensive but it don't last long. In the end you pay twice... or more.

 

[SNK]

Stephen, Take a Pill.

My point was gentlemen that we need to globally increase our awareness of completing a task efficiently. If we continue to delay, delay and delay again due to incompetence in the workplace, our jobs in manufacturing are going to disappear.
From my perspective, I am seeing more incompetence every day, and those are the decision-makers.

Don't take things so personally guys.

Steven, why don't you put your money where your mouth is too?
Guaranteed that your circuit boards are made in China. To think that you know anything about where I purchase any of my goods, you should be ashamed of your allegations.

The last time I checked, I am driving American.

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

Steven, why don't you put your money where your mouth is too?
Guaranteed that your circuit boards are made in China. To think that you know anything about where I purchase any of my goods, you should be ashamed of your allegations.

I bet they aren't.
Some of the components are probably made overseas. The boards are probably stuffed and tested here. To make it worth while to move production over seas the volumes must be high.

The main reason is that the design would be stolen.

 

[danieluy]

And i thought these problems were happening only here in my country!

once again i agree with Peter.. There is no holding back in us learning but it must not be at other's expense...

In our country, I encourage our customers to look for Engineers in their field to help them with their problems.. and the customers should understand that they are taking risks if they hire otherwise.

due to the shortage of Automation Engineers here most companies just hire the first guy that walks in... Its a sad thing.. But it does happen.

But then the Engineers should at least be FRANK with their clients that they have no experience or little experience whatsoever in their current project.
and the COMPANY should at LEAST take this into consideration.

 

[leitmotif]

I love learning from other peoples mistakes - saves me so much money headaches etc - assuming I am not part of the mistake.

Is there not a nursery rhyme that goes
For want of a nail
etc etc etc
the battle was lost. ??
Was that not written many decades ago?

Why do we never learn?
Seems like we come up with these new programs 5S (now 6 I understand) six sigma, Kaizen and the list goes on and on. Yet all these programs do is repeat what Mom and kindergarten taught us ie
"put your toys (tools) away", make sure you have all the stuff you need to make a cake,

Dan Bentler

 

[OkiePC]

Two variables

There are basically two qualities that comprise a useful employee...in any endeavor.

Whether it is a full time comrade, or contractor, it all boils down to two parameters.

These parameters are difficult to document, and elsusive to quickly judge.

While management must make quick deci$ions, their assessment of those two values is often in err.

Here in redneckland, we call the primary usefullness measure: "The give-a-chit-quotient".

The other, more readily understood variable can best be described in English as a combination of talent and comprehension.

The higher the "G.A.S.Q.", the desire to do the right thing, the obviousness with which the person attempts to perform, the more likely that person is to be accepted, regardless of his or her capability.

Those with a high GASQ are unashamed of asking dumb question. Their yearning for success supercedes their ego.

Likewise the guy who understands everything but shows no enthusiasm, or willingness to learn by doing, no concern for cost, safety, and productivity, etc. That person is, often unfairly, more likely to be disregarded.

It takes both. Some of you have exceptional gifts in both categories, and some of us are blessed with a high give-a-crud level and manage to survive with an everage level of comprehension + talent.

It isn't just this field, it is humanity as a whole.

Also worthy of note is the fact that the higher the "care-factor" the greater the intolerance for ignorance, which is often justified, but occasionally mislaid.

I feel sympathetic feelings for the RANTS directed at incompetence. I really don't think it is getting any worse, but I could be wrong. I truly believe there will always be incompetence at all levels, and it will be offset by a slightly more potent amount of competence, as we struggle forward in our trade(s).

I would rather have a guy with an IQ of 80 and a GASQ of 140 than the inverse...JMHOO.

PiEaCe!

 

[kamenges]

Originally posted by SNK:

My point was gentlemen that we need to globally increase our awareness of completing a task efficiently. If we continue to delay, delay and delay again due to incompetence in the workplace, our jobs in manufacturing are going to disappear.

When you say 'globally' do you mean, literally, 'around the globe' or do you mean 'universally within your own organization'? If it is the former you are left with the status quo as, in general, delays wioll decrease everywhere. If it is the latter I still see this as as a little short-sighted in the long term if your long-term plan is to look outside every time you have an issue.

If you've missed it so far I'm a big proponent of internal expertise. I think there are alot of companies that are costing themselves $1 million by saving themselves $250,000, all to make it look better to the accountants. So if the point is that, given the culture that you don't want to develop internal talent, that you should automatically go outside for expertise when you need it I guess I have to agree. That mindset is just so foreign to me that its hard for me to think in those terms.

Keith

 

[timbo_uk]

I think that internal talent is actually undervalued; but only when that internal talent knows when to call in the external!

 

[TimothyMoulder]

I've seen a number of projects that tank for a variety of reasons over the years, but the reason a bad course of action persist is remarkably consistent.

Management is about making decisions. If I (as a manager) hire the wrong contractor for the job, the project suffers. But more importantly to my personal paycheck, it calls into question my ability to make decisions. Ergo, my ability as a manager.

This is why projects that suffer usually do so until the manager is replaced. Having thrown their reputations behind their decision, they will ride that horse straight to Hades before risking jumping off it.

TM

 

[iggy]

Everyone has to start somewhere, put yourself back (before you became bitter) wouldnt you have jumped at a chance to get a job in the feild. I got that chance not knowing anything about PLC and HMI or any other industrial software or hardware. I spent my 10 hours a day working and another 6-7 hrs after that reading and playing with simulation to figure it out. Everything seems so simple to you now, but everone has to start somewhere and all of us just cant go out and afford to get a degree. I do agree that people should atleast give an effort on their own to solve any problems, but sometimes in the 2 minutes it takes you to reply to a post, it would of taken hours someone to figure it out.

 

[robertmee]

Everyone has to start somewhere, put yourself back (before you became bitter) wouldnt you have jumped at a chance to get a job in the feild. I got that chance not knowing anything about PLC and HMI or any other industrial software or hardware. I spent my 10 hours a day working and another 6-7 hrs after that reading and playing with simulation to figure it out. Everything seems so simple to you now, but everone has to start somewhere and all of us just cant go out and afford to get a degree. I do agree that people should atleast give an effort on their own to solve any problems, but sometimes in the 2 minutes it takes you to reply to a post, it would of taken hours someone to figure it out.

I don't think anyone is disputing that a PLC programmer is instant-born. Nor do I recall anyone advocating that you have to get your degree. And this board welcomes newbies and their quest for knowledge. However, what the collective is tired of seeing is the poster that says I have XYZ project that I need to do, can you:

A) tell me how to connect to a PLC

B) what software do I need and where can I get it for free

C) what is a contact

D) Can you send me the code to make a widget packer work

E) My homework is due tomorrow and I haven't paid attention in class. How do I

When someone posts who is alternately well prepared, with an outline of what they need to do and has done the basic research on their own, then this board is all over helping that individual. I think everyone gets a sense of accomplishment helping those attain the level that they are at.

 

[iggy]

Dont get me wrong here, this post has saved me more than once.
The people here are great, and I agree that alot of people just post without trying to find the answer.
Just when I think I can see the forest through the trees a big old branch comes down and smacks me in the head.
Then I come back to this site to save me again....